ADN's being pushed out

kcmylorn · Aug 21, 2012

I just want to back up a bit and comment on the ADN programs being given sim Lab experience only while the BSN's are getting floor experience in Philly. Yes, I do believe that. The Philly area is very snobbish and are elitists when it comes to BSN only. The Philly academia is trying to get rid of all the the ADN, diploma programs and this is one of the ways they are making their point. They are making it almost impossible for the ADN and diploma programs to give clinical time to their students.

The other way they are making their point is the Magnet nonsense. Hospitals are throwing away/spending thousands of dollars to the AACN to gain a Magnet crown and Miss America sash and that is all it is a useless crown and sash for the beauty pagent contestant hopefuls of the by gone era who were simply too dowdy and fugly to even get entered. They are the 'now a days' nursing administrators who if a picture were taken- the camera would break, a peeping tom would vomit on the window sill. They are the same ones who are now practicing the elitism in Nursing in the $300 Ann Taylor suits and coach bags. Looks have escaped them and years later- still do. Donald Trump's hair would stand on end; as a matter of fact they resemble old Donald, especially around the puckered mouth!! JMHO--- I couldn't resist

kitty13 · Aug 22, 2012

bravo, Bravo. !!!!!!!!!!!!!

chuckster, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Aug 22, 2012

I just want to back up a bit and comment on the ADN programs being given sim Lab experience only while the BSN's are getting floor experience in Philly. Yes, I do believe that. The Philly area is very snobbish and are elitists when it comes to BSN only. The Philly academia is trying to get rid of all the the ADN, diploma programs and this is one of the ways they are making their point. They are making it almost impossible for the ADN and diploma programs to give clinical time to their students.

That wasn't my experience. I went to one of the Philly area CC's for my ADN. We had quite a bit of clinical time, roughly 1,000 hours over the course of the program. We did some days in the sim lab the first semester, so that the instructors could be reasonably certain we weren't going to kill our patients. After those first few weeks though, it was all clinical rotations. I'm not sure how this stacks up against the area BSN programs, but I have to think it is at least similar. Students in the diploma programs probably do quite a bit more than that though.

The other way they are making their point is the Magnet nonsense. . .

I agree that Magnet status is largely irrelevant and will crowd out some very highly qualified AD-only nurses. In my view, many of the hospitals are doing this not so much because they are sold on the idea of BSN=Better Patient Outcomes but rather for publicity reasons and simply because they can, due to the glut of nurses in the Phila region.

NadiaMarie · Aug 22, 2012

I just want to back up a bit and comment on the ADN programs being given sim Lab experience only while the BSN's are getting floor experience in Philly. Yes, I do believe that. The Philly area is very snobbish and are elitists when it comes to BSN only. The Philly academia is trying to get rid of all the the ADN, diploma programs and this is one of the ways they are making their point. They are making it almost impossible for the ADN and diploma programs to give clinical time to their students.
The other way they are making their point is the Magnet nonsense. Hospitals are throwing away/spending thousands of dollars to the AACN to gain a Magnet crown and Miss America sash and that is all it is a useless crown and sash for the beauty pagent contestant hopefuls of the by gone era who were simply too dowdy and fugly to even get entered. They are the 'now a days' nursing administrators who if a picture were taken- the camera would break, a peeping tom would vomit on the window sill. They are the same ones who are now practicing the elitism in Nursing in the $300 Ann Taylor suits and coach bags. Looks have escaped them and years later- still do. Donald Trump's hair would stand on end; as a matter of fact they resemble old Donald, especially around the puckered mouth!! JMHO--- I couldn't resist

I graduated from a ADN program and we were in the hospital (multiple different hospitals actually). We only went into our sim lab 2 times each semester. I'm from NY I don't know if that has anything to do with it. That's a shame if other ADN programs only have simulation. Ours was not like that all.

kcmylorn · Aug 22, 2012

I live in this appauling philly area and have worked as an RN in this apaulling philly areas for 32 years. I am a diploma grad- I know first hand what this area is and what it is not and what it is doing and what it is not doing. I know that the BSN academia have all but cornered the market on hospitals giving clinical hours to their BSN students and not to the diploma or ADN students. This is not the first time I have heard this. Helen Fuld School of nursing over 100 years old - a 3 yr diploma school: is it shut down or is it not? Mercer County Community College's Nursing program-- 2yr ADN- is it t shut down or is it not? I know some of the big guns in Nursing "BSN only push academia" are right here in my backyard. Does Philadelphia community college still have it's 2 yr nursing program?

I know what the philly job market for nurses is and what it isn't as I have been pounding it's preverbial pavement since 2008! This job market is so mean and so closed- that I am trying my best to move the H*** out of here.

I have seen our wages fall by almost $20.oo/hr. At least for me- 32yrs of hospital experience. This is disgusting Even agency wages have gone to the crapper!!

Older nurses have been gotton rid of in the philly Area hospitals -right and left- that I know too- when you are forced to seek a succession of temp position for 4 yrs, you meet 'alot' of nurses, and I do happen to go into grocery stores and retail stores, run into them and talk to them. I witnessed first hand- Deborah Heart and Lung handed their older nurses severence packages in the summer of 2008 and told them to go quietly or stay and be fired. I know a major hospital in Camden who is running it's older nurses out by harassing and intimidating behavior, while the other one posts bogus job postings and responds to 32 yr old veteran RN's they 'don't have the experience they were looking for " What kind of crap is that!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know almost all the job positions for nurses are fake, non existant. I apply to them. and report them to the dept of labor which I have become a familiar face- unemployment. I write letters of complaint to Unemployment, the Dept of Health, the New Jersey State Nursing Sssociation and Bores of Nursing and the EEOC- which insidently has an office on Market St.

Yes, I know more about the nursing situation in PHilly than I care to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and it is not saying anything good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This old nurse has kept their mouth shut toooooooooooo long.

The philly area hospital system is more corrupt than the mob.

kcmylorn · Aug 22, 2012

Then to over to the Jersey side- the NJ hospital association is run by one of the biggest hypocrits and crooks in healthcare on the eastern seaboard- I have a tinkle target with his picture on it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

proud nurse, BSN, RN · Aug 22, 2012

I am a new graduate of an ADN program and will be pursuing my BSN this fall because I keep being told that eventually we will be told we will have to have it by 2020. I recently got a job and asked my employer about tution reimbursement and pay differential for BSN. I was shocked to find out from HR there is NO tution help and absolutely NO differential in pay. I am really taken back by this since they are pushing for their nurses to become a BSN, which I might add, not ONE nurse in this hospital is a BSN. I will probably be the first one even over my Nurse Manager who is "working" on it. UGH

At my pinning ceremony, the Dean of Nursing congratulated us all on how wonderful of an accomplishment we all achieved and should be so proud. The next sentence: ADN programs will be a thing of the past, you will need to pursue a BSN by 2020 to stay in the competetive job market. WTH?

I just graduated in May. I'm working full time and I'm exhausted. School is not on my mind right now. I also work for a Magnet hospital. Many people were surprised I was hired, knowing that they really only want BSN's. The majority are BSN, put there are plenty of ADN. I will go back, but I'd like to catch my breath first.

kcmylorn · Aug 23, 2012

If these health care institutions want all BSN's- then they should be paying our tuition

Some one should sit these idiots down and tell them in elementary school language- the money for tuition doesn't grow on trees and make then write it 500 times until they get it!!!!!!!!

They want nurses to gain advanced degrees then they don't want to pay wage compensation deserving of that advanced degree. I notice that is what the CEO's cry baby about when they defend their high salaries.

kcmylorn · Aug 24, 2012

I guess we can start writing our nursing assessments in APA format complete with foot notes, references and don't forget to "exactly quote the patients" to prevent plagerism. example:"No, I don't want that f!@*in' pill" we can dazzle the demented and hallucinatory with knowledge of classical art= Picasso's "lady on a sofa", hum a few concerto's and conduct story time - the Helen of Troy and Trojian Horse".

I guess this is were the better communicator comes in- "Good morning administration , and who are you today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Catch22Personified · Aug 31, 2012

Too many nursing schools opening up is leading to a serious case of degree dilution.

I can't wait until a DNP is the bare minimum to even work at a nursing home, how about you guys?

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Sep 21, 2012

I agree with the many older RN's who already have a bachelors in another field and preparing for retirement, paying off their mortgage, taking care of their family, going back to school for a BSN would be a waste of time and money and would be taking a step backwards especially financially, when instead of saving for retirement you are taking out student loans that have to be paid before retirement or find your social security garnished! To get a BSN just to have a credential and no incentive financially also minimal college reimbursement, is just not worth it!

Most of the new grad RN's I work with are back in school getting their NP to get out of bedside nursing as soon as possible. So the BSN push in the end will only backfire and increase staff turnover.

avengingspirit1 · Feb 25, 2013

The Aiken study that nursing academic elitists love to trumpet as the reason why we need the BSN push has already been shown to be biased and flawed in many ways. I invite all nurses to read the critiques of the study. It is full of self-affirming validity. Why would anyone who calls themselves a professional advocate changing nursing policy based on just one study? So why the sudden push for the BSN? This may give us clue: (200 college and university campuses have closed during the last 10 years due to decreasing enrollments as baby boomers aged" (Nursing Spectrum, Jan. 9, 2012). Carefully research the people driving the BSN push and you'll find that every one of them is in some way affiliated with a four year college or university. I also researched the IOM and found that just about every one of its officials and representatives are also affiliated with four year schools. In other words, four year colleges need revenue and those in academia want to stay employed. Since there are more nurses than any other healthcare professional, they feel requiring nurses to run back to school is the best way to get it. Once they have all nurses running back for BSNs, then they'll say you need a Master's Degree to give the profession the respect it deserves. After that it will be a doctorate. If you buy into this scheme, they'll have you running back to school and in debt for the rest of your life.

Many hospitals in the area are telling their most experienced nurses; many who are in their 40s and 50s who have over 20+ yrs of experience along with specialty certifications that demonstrate proficiency and excellence in areas such as trauma and ICU and who also have called upon to mentor new nurses, that they must now earn BSNs. Many of these nurses realize that to go into debt for $20,000-$30,000 at that time in their lives for something that has absolutely no bearing on patient care is ludicrous. Many know that the loan may not be paid off by the time they are ready to retire and have said they would leave the profession if they are forced to do this. These are the most experienced nurses that you and I would want to have taking care of us or our loved ones should hospital treatment be necessary. Losing these nurses would be a detriment to the profession and a danger to general public.

Bottom line: If the BSN push is not about money, why won't they let nurses earn BSNs the same way they earn CEUs such as studying articles in Nursing Spectrum and Advance then taking the competency tests. Reason is the four year colleges and universities won't make money that way.

And as far as Magnet Status goes:“Nothing more than a money making scheme for the ANA, hospitals pay the ANA thousands of dollars for a fake seal of approval.” (Jan.16, 2009, Nursingjobs.org.).

The elitists driving the BSN and Magnet Status push live in the fantasy world of academia and think we nurses are too stupid and naive to see through their game. Let's let them know we're not by not not buying into their scam and by not supporting the ANA or your state's nurse's association until they stop supporting the hiring of only BSNs in hospitals. Also, an RN with a Bachelor's Degree in another area should be given the same hiring consideration as someone with a BSN. To not do so would be the most narrow-minded, short-sighted thing I've ever heard of.