ADN vs. BSN for Entry Level Nursing - page 2

The new push is for all nurses to be baccalaureate prepared, eliminating the 2 year associate degree program. Given the current and future nursing shortage, what is your opinion?... Read More

  1. Visit  -Midget- profile page
    0
    In Portland, there is only 2 ADN programs that I know about, and the one I looked at had a *long* waiting list. I didn't find out about the other one, actually, until I had made up my mind to go for my BSN. Also, as others have said...by the time you do your pre-reqs for ADN, you've spent a year at least already. Then you have 2 year ADN progrom, that's at least 3/4 of the way to your BSN. Once I realized that, I was like...you know, I might as well just get my BSN now.
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  3. Visit  ZASHAGALKA profile page
    1
    How about this (I discussed this in another thread), I'll call it an 'Automatic Bridge' Program.

    It'd take laws in each of the states to move the idea along:

    Every ADN program must 'partner' with a BSN program, either University or on-line. Every graduate of the ADN program, just like now, is eligible to sit NCLEX and be RN.

    A graduate of the ADN program is automatically 'bridged' to the BSN program. Upon graduation, every ADN graduate knows that if they take the following, say 11 courses, they will get their BSN. The are already in the program for that bridge, and can pick off the classes one at a time, as they are able.

    They don't have to find a bridge program; they don't have to apply for a bridge program. They are AUTOMATICALLY IN A BRIDGE PROGRAM. The program is available to them, whether or not they avail themselves.

    Nationally standardize a pathway from ADN to BSN. If I take 6 of my 11 classes within 3 yrs at the 'bridge' with my ADN program, but I move, I ought to be able to pick up the remaining 5 classes elsewhere, in the same streamline to BSN.

    And then, the kicker: 3-5 dollar an hour differential to encourage BSN.

    You keep the ADN pipeline but funnel those students through to the end-goal.

    Now, if you want the lowly advice of an ADN (we are a majority of RNs): If you want to move to BSN-standard, stop saying that you need to do so because WE are bringing down YOUR profession. Your 'pride of place' is alienating the people you will have to convince if you want to go here.

    And in point of fact, the BSN programs and mindset indoctrinate this 'arrogance of place' so much, that I doubt a BSN only standard could ever come about. You'll never convince your fellow professionals when you can't carry the tune of your argument without putting down your fellow professionals.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Apr 5, '06
    WANT2BANURSESOON likes this.
  4. Visit  kenesha212002 profile page
    0
    I agree with you about the majority of nurses being ADN educated and that is fine. But, it is not about bringing the profession down it is about building it up and empowering ourselves. Why just be happy with the minimum why not push to the exceed that and gain respect in the process? If education alienates my fellow RNs well than I am sorry.
    And....as a graduate of a BSN program I can say yes you are right BSN programs do indoctrine arrogance. Because they want to build confidence when you are faced with many of healthcare issues today and let nurses know to demand respect and equality. I don't think this task can't be done with an ADN degree, but I do think that it is easier when you have a bachelors. Nurses should manage nurses. Having a bachelors degree (minimum) guarantees that or would you want a pharmacist, physician or even a physical therapist (these all require advanced degrees) to control your unit?
    But besides all of that EXPERIENCE does come first and foremost. But, I have seen nurses with ADNs get passed over for management positions for a BSN prepared nurse with less experience. Also, more specialty units are looking to hire BSN prepared nurses such as ICU, CCU and telemetry because of applying for magnet status.
  5. Visit  NephroBSN profile page
    0
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    How about this (I discussed this in another thread), I'll call it an 'Automatic Bridge' Program.

    It'd take laws in each of the states to move the idea along:

    Every ADN program must 'partner' with a BSN program, either University or on-line. Every graduate of the ADN program, just like now, is eligible to sit NCLEX and be RN.

    A graduate of the ADN program is automatically 'bridged' to the BSN program. Upon graduation, every ADN graduate knows that if they take the following, say 11 courses, they will get their BSN. The are already in the program for that bridge, and can pick off the classes one at a time, as they are able.

    They don't have to find a bridge program; they don't have to apply for a bridge program. They are AUTOMATICALLY IN A BRIDGE PROGRAM. The program is available to them, whether or not they avail themselves.

    Nationally standardize a pathway from ADN to BSN. If I take 6 of my 11 classes within 3 yrs at the 'bridge' with my ADN program, but I move, I ought to be able to pick up the remaining 5 classes elsewhere, in the same streamline to BSN.

    And then, the kicker: 3-5 dollar an hour differential to encourage BSN.

    You keep the ADN pipeline but funnel those students through to the end-goal.

    Now, if you want the lowly advice of an ADN (we are a majority of RNs): If you want to move to BSN-standard, stop saying that you need to do so because WE are bringing down YOUR profession. Your 'pride of place' is alienating the people you will have to convince if you want to go here.

    And in point of fact, the BSN programs and mindset indoctrinate this 'arrogance of place' so much, that I doubt a BSN only standard could ever come about. You'll never convince your fellow professionals when you can't carry the tune of your argument without putting down your fellow professionals.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    I don't think many BSN's think ADN's are "bringing down (OUR) profession". I think we are trying to bring up the profession. To have nurses who can stand toe to toe with other professionally prepared healthcare workers.

    We are asking you to join our ranks. We are even saying that you can do it. That you have the intellect, experince, drive, and stamia to do just that.

    We are inviting you to join us. We are advising you that it's the way to go.

    Why would anyone turn away extra education.

    I do like your concept. I think it would work well. I think it is the best solution I've heard.

    Hopefully, we can solve this situation soon. It's been an issue for years.

    And as the other poster said nurses need to be working together. Supervising each other.

    As an aside many BSN's don't sit behind a desk. I've never been a supervisior, CM, etc. I've always done patient care. I was passed over for CN in the M/S unit by ADN's and was happy to let them do the job.

    Let's not pigeon hole each other.
  6. Visit  GrnHonu99 profile page
    0
    Quote from Kelly_the_Great
    Although, I got t' tell ya, if I were th' patient - I'd almost always prefer the Diploma nurse (that is if we're talking about new graduates).

    And these are the types of comments that always get it going. Sheesh. I'm not even going to commenton this.
  7. Visit  zenman profile page
    0
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Understand that there is practically no difference in the education between the programs when it comes to BEDSIDE nursing: BSN's advantage is geared towards management and research.
    This is a common misperception held by many. I've taught in both ADN and BSN programs. Here is quotes from this school:

    "ADN: A two-year technical degree nursing education program that prepares graduates for basic nursing care in hospitals and long term care settings. "

    BSN: A four-year professional nursing education program that includes liberal arts education preparing graduates for beginning nursing practice in a wide variety of settings including acute and long term care, community and school health and critical care."

    The ADN was created to "solve" a nursing shortage. This does not show our intelligence level as we would not want other professions to act the same in a shortage.

    If one wants to debate the issue, you must leave out the commonly debated distractions:

    "We all take the same exam."
    "We all take the NCLEX."
    Anything to do with the amount of clinical time.
    Anything to do with pay.

    But, as one poster said, it's probable best to grandfather everyone in, go to BSN as entry level, and get on the the real issues holding us back.
  8. Visit  leslie :-D profile page
    0
    Quote from zenman
    you must leave out the commonly debated distractions:

    "We all take the same exam."
    "We all take the NCLEX."
    Anything to do with the amount of clinical time.
    Anything to do with pay.
    i agree with #4.
    #1, #2 are redundant.

    i don't understand "we all take the nclex" as a distraction....why isn't that a valid argument? surely if there was that much of a difference between adn and bsn, there would be different exams.

    if i were hiring, i would be more interested in the candidate with more clinical time. that's why diploma nurses are reputedly sought after.

    leslie
  9. Visit  dayplay profile page
    0
    I think that most RNs would say that having a BSN is more beneficial to the RNs in terms of being consider a "Profession". In every avenues, we looked at professionals with degrees such MD, Pharmacist, Accountant, Analysts...etc. Associate degree is a degree but often looked at as a short-easy way of earning some form of degree. It is like a certificate type program. When people look at professionals, they look at those who pursue 4 or more full-time years of college education. On the other hand, ADN is really not a simple two year program... it is almost a 4year program just like the baccalaureate program sometimes longer. I have difficulty understanding why people would pursue the ADN route (except for cost), while time spent to complete the program is about the same. Perhaps, a two tier salary should be available to ADN vs BSN/MSN RNs then maybe will see a rise in BSN driven RNs. Eventually, we will perhaps get the respect we all been aspiring to achieve as a "professional worker".
  10. Visit  GrnHonu99 profile page
    0
    Not all diploma programs "get more clinical hours". Maybe in some places but certainly not all. If I were hiring i'd be interested in the all around best canidate. I know several individuals who could have all the clinical hours in the world and still end up not being proficient. The real question is: after nursing students make the transition into the workforce, and after a year or so, what is the advantage of one degree over another?
  11. Visit  GrnHonu99 profile page
    0
    [QUOTE=zenman]
    If one wants to debate the issue, you must leave out the commonly debated distractions:

    "We all take the same exam."
    "We all take the NCLEX."
    Anything to do with the amount of clinical time.
    Anything to do with pay.

    QUOTE]

    I totally agree with number 3.
  12. Visit  illidan01 profile page
    0
    [font=book antiqua]what a hot topic! for nursing students i believe we just need the advice of experienced nurses - no matter what degree they have. i just need to now what the oppurtunities of advancement are if you have your assoicates vs. bsn. i believe both are worthy, but when you are an older student knowledge is power for making this type of decision. if a person wanted to get into teaching what would be the better degree to have?
    [font=book antiqua]i live in ohio, so does anyone know what the nursing direction is going toward? what do most hospitals really look at? i do not believe the pay in any different here. what would be a good community college to go to for the assoicates, and a good university for the bsn?
    [font=book antiqua]when training a new nurse which do you feel is better adaptable, the assoicates vs. bsn?
    [font=book antiqua]these are things no college will tell you, and i have heard the personnel department just does not know because they do not work on the floors. the experience nurses are the one's to talk to!
    [font=book antiqua]please remember, for nursing students we don't care if you have your assoicates vs. bsn, we just need your experienced advice.
  13. Visit  Tweety profile page
    1
    Quote from ilidan01
    [font=book antiqua]what a hot topic! for nursing students i believe we just need the advice of experienced nurses - no matter what degree they have. i just need to now what the oppurtunities of advancement are if you have your assoicates vs. bsn. i believe both are worthy, but when you are an older student knowledge is power for making this type of decision. if a person wanted to get into teaching what would be the better degree to have?
    [font=book antiqua]i live in ohio, so does anyone know what the nursing direction is going toward? what do most hospitals really look at? i do not believe the pay in any different here. what would be a good community college to go to for the assoicates, and a good university for the bsn?
    [font=book antiqua]when training a new nurse which do you feel is better adaptable, the assoicates vs. bsn?
    [font=book antiqua]these are things no college will tell you, and i have heard the personnel department just does not know because they do not work on the floors. the experience nurses are the one's to talk to!
    [font=book antiqua]please remember, for nursing students we don't care if you have your assoicates vs. bsn, we just need your experienced advice.
    some of your questions can be answered in the ohio nurses forum.

    both the bsn and the adn nurse start out as new grad rns, pretty much on equal footing, making the same amount of money.

    there are "bsn preferred" positions in education, management, research, community health, drug companies, and insurance companies where with experience the bsn nurse has the edge. also many people with a bsn use this to go on to become nurse practioners and other master's level positions.

    hospital employers looking for entry level nurses, usually consider adn and bsn nurses equally, without much favoritism. sometimes the individual manager/recruiter has their own preferences. i heard a recruiter, i forget where she was, who preferred the adn students in her area because their clinical experience was better. other recruiters may be more slanted to the bsn. but the most part, entry level bedside nurse positions both degrees are fairly well received. (and no, i can't tell the difference between an adn grad and a bsn grad, they both are greeen "deer in the headlights" kind of nurses, focused on mastering the tasks of nursing.)

    i am currently bridging from adn to bsn because i want more opportunities away from the bedside as i age. i'm leading towards education, but want to have options available to me. i can't see me med-surg bedside nursing until i'm 70 and can retire.

    i recommend if you have the time and money, to get the bsn now, get it out of the way as you may want it later. don't believe those who say "bsn is a waste of time". (you said that in your other post that the moderators locked.) it might be their choice and for them, but that kind of blanket statement doesn't apply to us all.
    Last edit by Tweety on May 26, '06
    Tragically Hip likes this.
  14. Visit  illidan01 profile page
    0
    thank you tweety for your advice! i will take it all into consideration! it was a great help.


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