ADN vs. BSN for Entry Level Nursing - Page 2

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  1. Apr 5, '06 by
    Quote from Lurksalot
    It would be good for the entire profession to establish a baseline of education for the RN. All I can say about it right now is that ADN, BSN, diploma, all of the programs prepare the nurse for ENTRY into practice, and they all prepare us to sit for the same NCLEX.
    You just described the baseline of education for the RN. All three programs prepare nurses for entry into practice.

    If you have more than the minimum standard, congratulations!

    But there already IS a minimum standard in place, whether you agree with it or not: you have to graduate from one of those programs.

    BSN-only isn't about creating standards or even raising them. Understand that there is practically no difference in the education between the programs when it comes to BEDSIDE nursing: BSN's advantage is geared towards management and research.

    That being the case, BSN-only requirement for bedside RNs has more to do with exclusivisity and has absolutely nothing to do with adequate preparation. The law of supply and demand will always interfere with this 'arrogance of place'. It has for the last 40 yrs; it will for the next 40 yrs.

    We can either argue about it, or get over it. But in the end, it's an argument about the best way to change the weather.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Apr 5, '06
  2. Apr 5, '06 by
    Quote from Lurksalot
    All I can say about it right now is that ADN, BSN, diploma, all of the programs prepare the nurse for ENTRY into practice, and they all prepare us to sit for the same NCLEX.
    I like the philosophy of: the ADN, BSN and Diploma education provides you with "a license to learn."

    Although, I got t' tell ya, if I were th' patient - I'd almost always prefer the Diploma nurse (that is if we're talking about new graduates).
    futurernjap likes this.
  3. Apr 5, '06 by
    Diploma nurses, ADN and BSN prepared nurses all take the same NCLEX-RN exam to be licensed as a registered nurse. No one is a smarter or a better prepared clinical nurse in this fashion. But to be taken seriously as a professional I think that nurses as a minimum should have their bachelor degrees.
    Many other professions in healthcare require as minimum standards a bachelors degree, but are moving towards higher requirements. Occupational therapy is moving to masters level and physical therapy is moving to doctorate level. I don't think that it would hurt nursing at all to move entry level to a bachelors degree. The healthcare industry in general is in a shortage (that should not be an excuse anymore) and as previously said some ADN prepared nurses took just as long to receive their associates as some took to get their bachelors.
    Why not respect the "profession" and make it a profession?

    Brandi RN, BSN
  4. Apr 5, '06 by
    In Portland, there is only 2 ADN programs that I know about, and the one I looked at had a *long* waiting list. I didn't find out about the other one, actually, until I had made up my mind to go for my BSN. Also, as others have said...by the time you do your pre-reqs for ADN, you've spent a year at least already. Then you have 2 year ADN progrom, that's at least 3/4 of the way to your BSN. Once I realized that, I was like...you know, I might as well just get my BSN now.
  5. Apr 5, '06 by
    How about this (I discussed this in another thread), I'll call it an 'Automatic Bridge' Program.

    It'd take laws in each of the states to move the idea along:

    Every ADN program must 'partner' with a BSN program, either University or on-line. Every graduate of the ADN program, just like now, is eligible to sit NCLEX and be RN.

    A graduate of the ADN program is automatically 'bridged' to the BSN program. Upon graduation, every ADN graduate knows that if they take the following, say 11 courses, they will get their BSN. The are already in the program for that bridge, and can pick off the classes one at a time, as they are able.

    They don't have to find a bridge program; they don't have to apply for a bridge program. They are AUTOMATICALLY IN A BRIDGE PROGRAM. The program is available to them, whether or not they avail themselves.

    Nationally standardize a pathway from ADN to BSN. If I take 6 of my 11 classes within 3 yrs at the 'bridge' with my ADN program, but I move, I ought to be able to pick up the remaining 5 classes elsewhere, in the same streamline to BSN.

    And then, the kicker: 3-5 dollar an hour differential to encourage BSN.

    You keep the ADN pipeline but funnel those students through to the end-goal.

    Now, if you want the lowly advice of an ADN (we are a majority of RNs): If you want to move to BSN-standard, stop saying that you need to do so because WE are bringing down YOUR profession. Your 'pride of place' is alienating the people you will have to convince if you want to go here.

    And in point of fact, the BSN programs and mindset indoctrinate this 'arrogance of place' so much, that I doubt a BSN only standard could ever come about. You'll never convince your fellow professionals when you can't carry the tune of your argument without putting down your fellow professionals.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Apr 5, '06
    WANT2BANURSESOON likes this.
  6. Apr 6, '06 by
    I agree with you about the majority of nurses being ADN educated and that is fine. But, it is not about bringing the profession down it is about building it up and empowering ourselves. Why just be happy with the minimum why not push to the exceed that and gain respect in the process? If education alienates my fellow RNs well than I am sorry.
    And....as a graduate of a BSN program I can say yes you are right BSN programs do indoctrine arrogance. Because they want to build confidence when you are faced with many of healthcare issues today and let nurses know to demand respect and equality. I don't think this task can't be done with an ADN degree, but I do think that it is easier when you have a bachelors. Nurses should manage nurses. Having a bachelors degree (minimum) guarantees that or would you want a pharmacist, physician or even a physical therapist (these all require advanced degrees) to control your unit?
    But besides all of that EXPERIENCE does come first and foremost. But, I have seen nurses with ADNs get passed over for management positions for a BSN prepared nurse with less experience. Also, more specialty units are looking to hire BSN prepared nurses such as ICU, CCU and telemetry because of applying for magnet status.
  7. Apr 6, '06 by
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    How about this (I discussed this in another thread), I'll call it an 'Automatic Bridge' Program.

    It'd take laws in each of the states to move the idea along:

    Every ADN program must 'partner' with a BSN program, either University or on-line. Every graduate of the ADN program, just like now, is eligible to sit NCLEX and be RN.

    A graduate of the ADN program is automatically 'bridged' to the BSN program. Upon graduation, every ADN graduate knows that if they take the following, say 11 courses, they will get their BSN. The are already in the program for that bridge, and can pick off the classes one at a time, as they are able.

    They don't have to find a bridge program; they don't have to apply for a bridge program. They are AUTOMATICALLY IN A BRIDGE PROGRAM. The program is available to them, whether or not they avail themselves.

    Nationally standardize a pathway from ADN to BSN. If I take 6 of my 11 classes within 3 yrs at the 'bridge' with my ADN program, but I move, I ought to be able to pick up the remaining 5 classes elsewhere, in the same streamline to BSN.

    And then, the kicker: 3-5 dollar an hour differential to encourage BSN.

    You keep the ADN pipeline but funnel those students through to the end-goal.

    Now, if you want the lowly advice of an ADN (we are a majority of RNs): If you want to move to BSN-standard, stop saying that you need to do so because WE are bringing down YOUR profession. Your 'pride of place' is alienating the people you will have to convince if you want to go here.

    And in point of fact, the BSN programs and mindset indoctrinate this 'arrogance of place' so much, that I doubt a BSN only standard could ever come about. You'll never convince your fellow professionals when you can't carry the tune of your argument without putting down your fellow professionals.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    I don't think many BSN's think ADN's are "bringing down (OUR) profession". I think we are trying to bring up the profession. To have nurses who can stand toe to toe with other professionally prepared healthcare workers.

    We are asking you to join our ranks. We are even saying that you can do it. That you have the intellect, experince, drive, and stamia to do just that.

    We are inviting you to join us. We are advising you that it's the way to go.

    Why would anyone turn away extra education.

    I do like your concept. I think it would work well. I think it is the best solution I've heard.

    Hopefully, we can solve this situation soon. It's been an issue for years.

    And as the other poster said nurses need to be working together. Supervising each other.

    As an aside many BSN's don't sit behind a desk. I've never been a supervisior, CM, etc. I've always done patient care. I was passed over for CN in the M/S unit by ADN's and was happy to let them do the job.

    Let's not pigeon hole each other.
  8. Apr 12, '06 by
    Quote from Kelly_the_Great
    Although, I got t' tell ya, if I were th' patient - I'd almost always prefer the Diploma nurse (that is if we're talking about new graduates).

    And these are the types of comments that always get it going. Sheesh. I'm not even going to commenton this.
  9. Guide
    Apr 12, '06 by
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Understand that there is practically no difference in the education between the programs when it comes to BEDSIDE nursing: BSN's advantage is geared towards management and research.
    This is a common misperception held by many. I've taught in both ADN and BSN programs. Here is quotes from this school:

    "ADN: A two-year technical degree nursing education program that prepares graduates for basic nursing care in hospitals and long term care settings. "

    BSN: A four-year professional nursing education program that includes liberal arts education preparing graduates for beginning nursing practice in a wide variety of settings including acute and long term care, community and school health and critical care."

    The ADN was created to "solve" a nursing shortage. This does not show our intelligence level as we would not want other professions to act the same in a shortage.

    If one wants to debate the issue, you must leave out the commonly debated distractions:

    "We all take the same exam."
    "We all take the NCLEX."
    Anything to do with the amount of clinical time.
    Anything to do with pay.

    But, as one poster said, it's probable best to grandfather everyone in, go to BSN as entry level, and get on the the real issues holding us back.
  10. Apr 12, '06 by
    Quote from zenman
    you must leave out the commonly debated distractions:

    "We all take the same exam."
    "We all take the NCLEX."
    Anything to do with the amount of clinical time.
    Anything to do with pay.
    i agree with #4.
    #1, #2 are redundant.

    i don't understand "we all take the nclex" as a distraction....why isn't that a valid argument? surely if there was that much of a difference between adn and bsn, there would be different exams.

    if i were hiring, i would be more interested in the candidate with more clinical time. that's why diploma nurses are reputedly sought after.

    leslie