Hyperpnea vs. Hyperventilation vs. Kussmaul's

  1. 0
    Could anyone explain the difference between these 3 terms?

    I'm not necessarily looking for particular websites or textbook definitions, because I already know what they are. Although if you happen to know of any sites that are particularly good (ie, besides wikpedia, webmd, and all the other walmart-quality of sources out there), feel free to post them.

    What I would really be interested in, though, is hearing a layman's definition from a nurse who already works with pulmonary-problem patients. ie, someone who has actual experience, understands these term, and can do more than just quote a textbook. (Not to belabor the point, but I'm just having a hard time establishing some consistency among all the texts that I'm researching.)

    I know that there is already a student forum for questions. I don't normally post questions outside of that forum, but I would really, really like to hear from a pulmonary-experienced RN on this.

    Thanks so much.
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  5. 0
    Hi.

    I asked three of the instructors at my school the difference between Kussmaul's and hyperventilation. One of them, who I respect, said "Kussmaul's? I've never heard of Kussmaul's." My anatomy and physiology instructor said they are pretty much the same.

    The head of the program told me that Kussmaul's is marked by heavy, forced expiration. She said that during ketoacidosis, the body is trying to expel CO2. It can look like hyperventilation because for every deep expulsion of air, the patient needs to take a corresponding inspiration, but the expulsion os much more pronounced. She said during hyperventilation, the breaths are usually shallower.

    I found your question because I googled "hyoerventilation vs Kussmaul's", after seeing differing and vague distinctions in my 7 textbooks! It was a direct hit, but I didn't find the answer here! It is very disconcerting to find so many different answers.

    Hope this helped.:spin:
  6. 1
    hyperpnea:
    abnormal increase in the depth and rate of breathing ... may be normal rate or >30+ breaths per minute. more commonly called tachypnea in my neck of the woods. inhalation and exhalation usually same depth but appears force; tired haggerd appearance if long standing illness.
    can answer questions about health.
    seen in persons with copd, asthma, tension pneumothorax, head injury


    hyperventilation:
    is rapid or deep breathing. shorter inspiration and longer expiration with rates over 30-40 + breaths per minute.
    often caused by anxiety or panic, seen distance runners at end of run.
    breathing pattern heightens feeling of breathlessness. patients can usually answer questions.

    kussmaul:
    pattern of deep and rapid respiration...also called air hunger---worsening above scenerios.
    seen particularly in metabolic acidosis.
    patients can rarely speak a sentence, usually 1-2 word answers to questions being asked.
    prompt use venturi non-rebreathing mask, cpap or prepare to intubate....especially if they tell you their tired and just going to sleep + suddenly nod off.
    streptococcus likes this.
  7. 0
    Quote from nrskarenrn
    hyperpnea:
    abnormal increase in the depth and rate of breathing ... may be normal rate or >30+ breaths per minute. more commonly called tachypnea in my neck of the woods. inhalation and exhalation usually same depth but appears force; tired haggerd appearance if long standing illness.
    can answer questions about health.
    seen in persons with copd, asthma, tension pneumothorax, head injury
    so hypernea = tachypnea? same thing?
  8. 0
    Quote from Eve Ryone
    Hi.

    I asked three of the instructors at my school the difference between Kussmaul's and hyperventilation. One of them, who I respect, said "Kussmaul's? I've never heard of Kussmaul's." My anatomy and physiology instructor said they are pretty much the same.

    The head of the program told me that Kussmaul's is marked by heavy, forced expiration. She said that during ketoacidosis, the body is trying to expel CO2. It can look like hyperventilation because for every deep expulsion of air, the patient needs to take a corresponding inspiration, but the expulsion os much more pronounced. She said during hyperventilation, the breaths are usually shallower.

    I found your question because I googled "hyoerventilation vs Kussmaul's", after seeing differing and vague distinctions in my 7 textbooks! It was a direct hit, but I didn't find the answer here! It is very disconcerting to find so many different answers.

    Hope this helped.:spin:

    Thanks. Yes, I agree - sometimes it seems like the terms become entirely arbitrary after a certain point.
  9. 0
    Quote from Jedi of Zen
    So hypernea = tachypnea? Same thing?
    my understanding was that tachypnea is a measure of rate only, shallow/deep breathing is not accounted for.

    hypernea is a measure of depth AND rate like others have said, most common example is during exercise

    hyperventilation is all that it implies: "hyper-ventilation". ventilation deals with CO2 elimination. hyperventilation has nothing to do with rate

    example: on a ventilated pt (sedated of course) you can get a patient down to a PaCO2 of 25 with a RR of 8-10 by increasing the VT. by definition this patient is being hyperventilated, even with the slow RR.

    on the other hand you can have a pt on a control rate of 20-25 with small VTs, yet the pt is not hyperventilating because the CO2 would be rising, thus the pt is really HYPOventilating.
  10. 0
    hypercapnea is like someone with COPD that retains air (barrel chest) which is like normal breathing, hypervenelation is very rapid breathing and kussmals is rapid but very deep to breath off co2 to help rid of acid
  11. 0
    Quote from Eve Ryone
    Hi.

    I asked three of the instructors at my school the difference between Kussmaul's and hyperventilation. One of them, who I respect, said "Kussmaul's? I've never heard of Kussmaul's." My anatomy and physiology instructor said they are pretty much the same.

    The head of the program told me that Kussmaul's is marked by heavy, forced expiration. She said that during ketoacidosis, the body is trying to expel CO2. It can look like hyperventilation because for every deep expulsion of air, the patient needs to take a corresponding inspiration, but the expulsion os much more pronounced. She said during hyperventilation, the breaths are usually shallower.

    I found your question because I googled "hyoerventilation vs Kussmaul's", after seeing differing and vague distinctions in my 7 textbooks! It was a direct hit, but I didn't find the answer here! It is very disconcerting to find so many different answers.

    Hope this helped.:spin:
    What helped me remember Kussmauls was this: "Get the DR" (DR= Deep and Rapid). The depth of the respirations in Kussmauls is what sets it apart. I thought I had seen it before, and knew I had during an hour long ambulance transfer with a teen in DKA. Normally we do the deep part with a sigh, but if you notice- there is usually a small pause in respirations after that sigh. This pause isn't there with Kussmaul's.
  12. 0
    Kussmaul:
    pattern of deep and rapid respiration...also called air hunger---worsening above scenerios.
    Seen particularly in metabolic acidosis.
    Patients can rarely speak a sentence, usually 1-2 word answers to questions being asked.
    Prompt use Venturi non-rebreathing mask, CPAP or prepare to intubate....especially if they tell you their tired and just going to sleep + suddenly nod off.

    I had this one once, and another time I just felt like going to sleep, but was actually crashing. My sats were dropping rapidly.
  13. 0
    In summary and as mentioned above, Kussmaul's respirations are rapid and /deep/, whereas hyperventilation or tachypnea is rapid and /shallow/.

    It typically occurs in patients with metabolic acidosis, as they are trying very hard to blow off the acid (H+) in their blood.

    (Recall the differential of metabolic acidosis - MUDPILES
    methanol, uremia, DKA, propylene glycol, isoniazid, lactic acidosis, ethylene glycol, salicylate.)

    Reference: Evidence-Based Physical Diagnosis, by Steven McGee, p. 193.

    PGY-1 Family Medicine


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