Court ordered rehab

TitaniaSidhe · Jul 24, 2005

Speaking as someone with 15yrs. clean- the primary purpose of NA is to carry the message to the addict who still suffers. It doesn't much matter how or what brings a person into the rooms so they can hear the message that any addict can lose the desire to use, stop using & find a new way to live. That being said you are correct in stating that an individual must have the desire to stop & make their own internal acknowledgement that they have a problem. It is the job of the individual memebers of the home group to maintain the atmosphere of recovery in meetings so that the message can be clearly heard. Now then speaking in regard to mixing Psych & addiction I think the whole thing is pointless & counterproductive for any long term recovery. It is the nature of medicine to prescribe medication to treat "illness" & it is the nature of the addict to look for the quick fix from an outside source. The only real way to achieve long term recovery is to look at the internal source for the compulsion to use or look for something external to fix an inside problem. To hand an addict a pill for...say depression & say here you are depressed take this is not effective. They need to address the reasons & behaviors which have lead to the depression, work, through introspection, to effect a personality change for the positive. Prescribing psych medications for addicts is the WORST & most counterproductive thing medicine can do. This is why NA speaks of total abstinence from any & all mood & mind altering drugs. Now mind you before everyone jumps on me here...lol...allow me to say there are programs specifically for dual diagnosed or MICA patients but these people do not belong in NA meetings & should not be encouraged to attend this particular 12 step fellowship. All that being said I guess with the court ordered thing, if it plants a seed that the individual will remember later down the road then it is worthwhile. Usually however an individual must hit their ROCK bottom in a rather painful manner prior to accepting the need for change & becoming willing to follow direction & do whatever is necessary to stay clean. MANY never reach this point & die along the way, sad but true. Psych is not effective in treating addiction, there is no empathy from someone who has never experienced active addiction & they are so very easily manipulated. You can't bullshyt another addict but you can the psychologist or social worker or doctor who read all about addiction in a book. There definately should be a limit on chances for rehab. If a person is court ordered & goes then immediately blows that chance they shouldn't be given another. They don't need rehab more than once anyhow all it does is buy you some time off the street in a safe environment & introduce you to the various 12 step fellowships which will be where you should go for help upon discharge. Detox should be inpatient only when there is physical danger from the withdrawl such as benzos, alcohol or barbituates. Heroin doesn't kill you it just makes you wish you were dead & cocaine well there is no physical withdrawl from that so what is the point? I could go on but I think it is time to give up the rant for today....lol. Just my 2 cents, I am sure many will not agree but oh well it is what makes us interesting.

LydiaNN · Jul 24, 2005

Thank you for your response, Titania. Your experience and perspective are very enlightening. What you've said about meds for an addict makes total sense to me. I didn't actually choose to post this topic in this forum; I had it under general nursing and it got moved.

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Jul 24, 2005

Doesn't this violate the entire point of rehab, that being, before anyone can help you, you have to want to help yourself (and be willing to do what you need to do)? I see celeb after celeb emerge from COR only to relapse, and I'm sure it happens among the non-celeb set, too. I find it particularly contraindicated when offenders are "sentenced" into AA or NA, because to me their presence alters the group dynamic from one in which all members have made the commitment to change their behavior, to one in which some of the members are sincere, and others are just hanging out to avoid jail time.

Addicts usually have very little insight into their disease. They'll deny they're addicted and it can prevent them from seeking help. However, I've seen a few addicts do an about-face in thinking once they've gone to a few meetings and realize that their stories are frighteningly similar to those are admitting their addictions and who are in recovery.

So maybe COR can save a few lives. Even if it only helped one addict to recovery, it'd be worth it, don't you think?

LydiaNN · Jul 24, 2005

Addicts usually have very little insight into their disease. They'll deny they're addicted and it can prevent them from seeking help. However, I've seen a few addicts do an about-face in thinking once they've gone to a few meetings and realize that their stories are frighteningly similar to those are admitting their addictions and who are in recovery.
So maybe COR can save a few lives. Even if it only helped one addict to recovery, it'd be worth it, don't you think?

Not if their presence negatively impacts the recovery efforts of those that are trying to get clean. That was my question, and one that I think a recovering addict is best able to answer.

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Jul 24, 2005

Not if their presence negatively impacts the recovery efforts of those that are trying to get clean. That was my question, and one that I think a recovering addict is best able to answer.

Oh, sorry. Didn't realize you were looking for a specific person to answer.

But still, in any recovery group there are "old-timers" who mentor and help the newbies. So it isn't like a bunch of addicts without any desire to recover are all lumped in together.

Maybe you should go to one of the Open or Beginner meetings of AA? They're great about answering your questions.

LydiaNN · Jul 24, 2005

I wasn't looking for a specific person to answer, and this isn't pressing enough for me to go to a beginner AA meeting. Never even heard of them. Are they actually for people with just a general interest, or are they meant for people who are considering membership? What prompted yesterday's question was a story I read about Courtney Love, finishing yet another court ordered rehab stint. When I said that I thought a recovering addict was best able to answer my question, I wasn't commenting on what I posted the question looking for, but what I felt like I gained from reading Titania's response.

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Jul 24, 2005

Well, then all I can say is that I have seen people court-ordered to AA--Alcoholics Anonymous--and some have realized that they had a problem and gotten into Recovery and others have not.

I think what you're trying to say is that if someone gets ordered into a group and that person doesn't want to recover, s/he will influence others to relapse.

But it doesn't work that way IRL.

It doesn't matter if there are people there who might not want to recover. Recovery happens in every group. Relapses happen in every group. It's a lifelong process.

My point is: Each person in a 12-Step Program is ultimately responsible for his/her own recovery. Most of the 12-Step programs are based on the AA model, in which each person who enters a program is encouraged to get a "sponsor" in addition to personal counseling and group meetings.

LydiaNN · Jul 24, 2005

It really is better for you not to summarize "what I am saying" since you are not getting it right. Perhaps that is what you are drawing from it, but you really don't know what is in my mind. What I am actually saying is rehab is difficult enough when one has made a sincere commitment to change, and it seems unfair to introduce those who haven't made that commitment into the group dynamic. Perhaps if there were groups just for people who are under court order to attend, that would make more sense to me. Everyone has the right to disagree, but no one has the right to announce to me what I feel or think, thankyouverymuch.

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Jul 24, 2005

OK, good enough. I'm outta here.

TitaniaSidhe · Jul 25, 2005

lol...my goodness. Valid point that yes an individual is responsible for their own recovery & yes MANY people end up in meetings who have no desire to change. People get to meetings for many different reasons, many of which are the wrong ones, they have to do it b/c they themselves have realised they have a problem & be willing to follow suggestions from more experienced members. I will also say that yes it is indeed difficult to maintain any atmosphere of recovery in a meeting full of people who don't want to be there but will go back to say that it is the responsibility of the members of that particular homegroup to maintain the atmosphere of recovery. It is one of the reasons why we do not allow people who come to meeting high to share during the meeting but rather suggest they get with someone after the meeting. We also have no desire to hear about what sort of new drug your shrink has prescribed for you or what your counsler had to say to you for advise, thi is an outside issue & has nothing to do with NA. Now if you wanna share about your sponser go for it but leave the other stuff outside of the rooms it clouds the message. Counseling is well & good, so is church but they should be for supplementation to ones recovery nottaking the place of. I have never had a problem shutting someone up politely in a meeting, keep in mind we are addicts & have many of us lived through some God aweful situations so getting someone to shut up & act right usually isn't a problem like it might be in say a therapy group. We are also not bound by the rules & regualtions of a hospital or institution which helps a great deal, to be able to speak your mind is extreemly helpful when dealing with addicts & not having to coddle or mince words for fear of offending or upsetting the "client" with something so mundane as say....the TRUTH. The only time we run into problems is when we do H&I meeting (Hospitals & Institutions) the jail meeting can be a bit difficult to maintain at times b/c many simply come to the meeting to get out of their cells or pods & have no interest in what is being said. This is why we try to select the people in our fellowship who are best suited to handle this sort of meeting. ie: those that have done long stints of time in jail themselves but are now clean for years & know how to handle the atmosphere. Court ordered rehab though is really I am thinking when allowed to happen more than once a waste of time & money. Also bear in mind that if the individual is court ordered to go then they know if they get kicked out they must go to jail for their term thus it will at least keep them hopefully on tolerable behavior. If not the rehab doesn't have to tolerate their acting out or negativity, they can simply go back to jail. As far as Courtney Love goes, in my opinion they are doing her a great diservice by bailing her out yet again. She should be allowed to fall on her face & fall hard with no one to pick her back up or bail her out. They are just keeping her sick & enabeling her by continuing to allow her to get away with shyt.

Oh & an open meeting is a meeting anyone can attend, addict or not addict. A closed meeting is for addicts only. Keep in mind however we are not instructors, we are people tryng to find a new way to live & improve upon ourselves. Yeah we can answer questions but we are not there for case studies, thesis research, ect. If you really want to know more about the fellowship(s) read the literature, there is plenty of it. It was written for us, by us. Most 12 step fellowships in existence today have based their steps on those first written by Bill W. of AA. There are however some pretty sizeable differences among the fellowships & this is why there is more than one. NA originated in the 1950's b/c AA didn't know what do do with all the drug addicts who were coming into the rooms of AA sharing at their meetings & clouding their message- we branched off, wrote our own steps & started our own fellowship that has been working for us quite well ever since.

You want more info I have plenty of it, pm me if you want some reading material, otherwise thanks for being open minded, asking the question & listening to the answer.

Whispera, MSN, RN · Jul 25, 2005

It's my experience that sometimes those who are court ordered or pressured by family and friends can catch on to what's needed once they're in treatment. So, the orders/pressure can matter.

If you haven't seen "28 Days" with Sandra Bullock, you might watch it for one interpretation of this sort of thing.