New Grad PDN (Advice, please?)

Specialties Private Duty

Published

You are reading page 3 of New Grad PDN (Advice, please?)

SDALPN

997 Posts

Specializes in Peds(PICU, NICU float), PDN, ICU.

How is it Medicare/Medicaid fraud to work as a PDN with less than one year experience as a nurse?

Because they require a year of experience to do PDN. They are paying for the services of a nurse with a minimum of a year of experience.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
Because they require a year of experience to do PDN. They are paying for the services of a nurse with a minimum of a year of experience.

Go you have direct in print information from CMS?

According to this link: http://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Guidance/Manuals/downloads/bp102c07.pdf

Pages 36-56 highlight nursing services; it does not specifically state that skilled nursing services has to be with a clinician that has one year experience, it only specifies that skilled nursing is needed; even student nurses are able to provide services.

SDALPN

997 Posts

Specializes in Peds(PICU, NICU float), PDN, ICU.

Go you have direct in print information from CMS?

According to this link: http://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Guidance/Manuals/downloads/bp102c07.pdf

Pages 36-56 highlight nursing services; it does not specifically state that skilled nursing services has to be with a clinician that has one year experience, it only specifies that skilled nursing is needed; even student nurses are able to provide services.

I've posted the link before that shows it is required. But I guess if student nurses can do our jobs, we aren't needed. Maybe they could hire CNAs since student nurses that aren't even a CNA can provide our skilled nursing services.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
I've posted the link before that shows it is required. But I guess if student nurses can do our jobs, we aren't needed. Maybe they could hire CNAs since student nurses that aren't even a CNA can provide our skilled nursing services.

First, you didn't post the link in any of your responses HERE.

Next, I'm not sure what you mean by that statement re student nurses; if anything, based on my link being the most updated version; CMS recognizes the ever need for qualified, competent nurses in home health, thus exposing student nurses into a specialty that NEEDS nurses; exposing those new grads into the specialty; if anything that's a PLUS, but hey, it's my experience as a new grad nurse who has done home health successfully as a new grad LPN nine years ago (and worked 7 of 9 years in home health) and was grateful for a BSN program that had a public health rotation that had home health exposure-if anything, nurses ARE needed, but to say that new grads CAN'T fo home health and the agancies are committing fraud is a bit over reaching; because there home agencies that have done so-and even have new grad residencies-successfully; granted we can agree it's not for everybody; however there are many that thrive in this specialty and started as new grads just like any other nursing specialty; the way healthcare is changing, this will no longer be an exception. :no:

I have another link from CMS that STILL doesn't state the 1 year experience for nurses, it is for administrators:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=nursing%20experience%20requirements%20for%20home%20health%20by%20cms&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cms.gov%2FRegulations-and-Guidance%2FGuidance%2FManuals%2Fdownloads%2Fsom107ap_b_hha.pdf&ei=Y787U7ftMaeC0AHO34HICQ&usg=AFQjCNFTwQbqmsz28x6vegsaIehatsiD1g&sig2=uvvKNUuG5w4l4LTlbu4lVg

Specializes in Med/surg tele, home health, travel.
Go you have direct in print information from CMS?

According to this link: http://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Guidance/Manuals/downloads/bp102c07.pdf

Pages 36-56 highlight nursing services; it does not specifically state that skilled nursing services has to be with a clinician that has one year experience, it only specifies that skilled nursing is needed; even student nurses are able to provide services.

Thanks for posting. I know that agencies require at least a minimum one year experience as a nurse or aide for liability reasons, but I was sure I didn't see anything on my application nor the Department of Medicaid's website about having experience as a nurse.

SDALPN

997 Posts

Specializes in Peds(PICU, NICU float), PDN, ICU.

Thanks for posting. I know that agencies require at least a minimum one year experience as a nurse or aide for liability reasons, but I was sure I didn't see anything on my application nor the Department of Medicaid's website about having experience as a nurse.

The reasons the agencies can't hire if you have under a year of experience is because of insurance. Fraud is when insurance is paying for a service and they aren't really getting it. Its just like if they put a CNA in a nurses job and tell insurance its a nurse. They even require the supervisors to have 2 years of experience. If nothing else, its just plain dangerous for a new grad to do PDN as there is no safety net and too much can go wrong. Nursing school clinicals isn't considered nursing experience by many employers. I've seen job ads where employers post "clinicals don't count towards experience".

Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
Thanks for posting. I know that agencies require at least a minimum one year experience as a nurse or aide for liability reasons, but I was sure I didn't see anything on my application nor the Department of Medicaid's website about having experience as a nurse.

:yes: There is no law or policy that states that it is illegal to hire nurses with less than 1 year experience; and most insurance policies follow CMS guidelines. The only fraud insurance and CMS is concerned about is whether an individual is reciving the care that is assigned; if a nurse is needed, then they will allow funding for a nurse and use CMS guidelines when determining who needs to be assigned for care.

The experience is heavily a liability reason; although there are agancies that are advertising in my area that I formally work for that have residencies and will train new grads and nurses transitioning from other specialties.

Despite my previous experience in home care, I STILL had to go through competency training and orient with a nurse in the home whenever I had a new assignment; as well as accepted feedback if one needs additional exposure; however they are one of the longest home health agencies in the business, certified by the Joint Comisssion and is in several states and have been in the buiness for about 40 years; it appears to me they know what they are doing. :)

Specializes in Cardio-Pulmonary; Med-Surg; Private Duty.

I'm still waiting for someone to post the CMS link requiring one year of experience for nurses to do PDN....????

+ Add a Comment