Anyone know about PMHNP to Psy.d/Ph.d?

  1. 0
    I have three questions about PHMNP

    1) How many more classes are usually required for FNP to become eligible to take the PMHNP exam as well. (there are zero pmhnp programs around where i live)

    2) If you decide to pursue a Doctorate in Psychology as a Pmhnp, are you allowed to enter with a master level or much you start from the begining?

    3) Besides advancing your knowledge and being able to teach, does having a Doctorate improve your marketablility or does it create a fuzzy role in the clinical setting and does it help you if you are self employed.( It seems as though as a psy.d you may have more refered clientel than pmhnp alone,just a thought)
    91W
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  4. 0
    I just talked to several psychologists and they are quite envious about my ability to prescribe due to the fact that I am a PMHNP/NP. I have some other biases with regard to PsyD so I am more inclined at this point in time to get my doctorate in clinical nursing. A few years a go I wouldn't have said that- but time and experience has changed my views.
  5. 0
    Yes- I think it can cause some blur. And I'd welcome anyone else to look at this topic too. The Psy.D. takes ages to complete at a decent school-and you surely want to go to an APA approved school, or there are consequences to getting all sorts of things,like internships. Typically they might take about 9 credits from the masters nursing program.
    Frankly you are far more marketable as a NP (NPP). However, the psychologist does NOT need physician approal or oversight in any way (at least from a regulatory standpoint.) that is a bonus.
  6. 0
    I appreciate all of the input on these questions. Here are a few more if you have any further insight on these matters.

    1) Can a PMHNP be an autonomous practitioner, or must they be under MD supervision ? (specifically California), furthermore, if one were a PMHNP & Psy.d , would they then be able to prescribe on their own, without being under a MD?

    2) I have seen DNP with a specialty in Psych. is this any different than practicing as a NP?

    There are so many directions a nurse can go. My own goal is to pursue Psychiatric nursing as far as I can go, throughout my life. Thank you for your replys.
  7. 0
    Hello 91W (are you an Army Health Care Specialist, MOS 91W?).

    Anyway, since I am a future psychologist (hopefully- I haven't gotten into graduate school yet) who looked into becoming a psychiatric nurse practitioner as a possible alternative I hope I can help.

    Are you already an RN? If you are you may as well go the NP route. With an MSN a psych nurse can make close to what a doctorate level psychologist can make. In most states he/she will be able to prescribe meds (something a psychologist can do only in one state and some in the military, and then only with an additional post-doctorate masters in psychopharmacology, though prescription privileges for psychologists seem to be coming in the future). In many states a psych NP will be able to do a private practice on their own as a therapist (some may be able to prescribe meds in private practice, usually with a collaborating MD for the meds). A psych NP can also do research. About the only disadvantage is if you like testing- only psychologists and counselors can do psych testing in most states.

    If you have a degree but aren't an RN then the Psy.D. or Ph.D. may be a better route. While a psych NP may have a private practice the public is more accepting of a psychologist in private practice (i.e. it will be easier to develop a clientele). The psychologist has a doctorate while a NP has a masters which will effect what you can charge per hour in private practice or effect your pay by most organizations (the one place a psych NP may make as much or more is in a hospital, but many clinical and counseling psychologists work in other settings other than hospitals). Also, psychology may be quicker. It takes 5 years minimum including the internship (actual time averages about 5.5 years for practice based Psy.D. programs and 6-7 for research based Ph.D. programs) while nursing school is 2-4 years for your BSN/RN depending on past coursework plus a year or two experience before you start your 2 year MSN program.

    2) If you decide to pursue a Doctorate in Psychology as a Pmhnp, are you allowed to enter with a master level or much you start from the begining?
    My first question would be "why". Both a pysch NP and a doctorate level psychologist are mental health professionals. In most states they can do independent practice of therapy. The difference is most states allow the NP to prescribe meds and right now only one state allows it of psychologists and then only after additional education. Other than meds both professions can do about 80% of what the other can do.

    Anyway, most Ph.D. programs in clinical psychology require a BA in psychology. They require significant research in psychology. They require GPAs that rival medical school requirements. They don't particularly care for a MA before starting- most clinical psych Ph.D. programs make you start from scratch if you have a MA in psychology or not, they certainly won't give advanced standing for non-psych masters no matter how closely related.

    Psy.D. programs in clinical psych and Ph.D.s in counseling psych are a little more MA friendly and a little more friendly towards people with non-psych BA/BS degrees. However, with few exceptions they will be looking for the MA in psychology or maybe counseling, not nursing or other psych related areas. It is unlikely that a Psy.D. in clinical or Ph.D. in counseling psych will give you any advanced standing for an MSN in psych nursing.

    3) Besides advancing your knowledge and being able to teach, does having a Doctorate improve your marketablility or does it create a fuzzy role in the clinical setting and does it help you if you are self employed
    The main advantage (other than psych testing) the doctorate in psychology will have for someone who wants to be a psych nurse is money. IF you do private practice or work in other non-hospital settings the psychologist will be paid more because they carry the title "doctor" which the psych nurse does not. However, if you work in a hospital the psych nurse probably won't be paid less, and may even be paid more.

    Now, if you want to be a psychologist there are advantages to this route, but it is a different profession. You will be eligible to work in more settings, though certainly with some overlap (mental health clinics, schools, university counseling centers, hospitals, psych hospitals, community colleges or universities as a professor, research facilities, business consulting, etc). It is more flexible- it isn't uncommon for a psychologist to work more than one area (FT as a professor and PT in practice for instance). You can administer or even design psychological and educational tests. But, it isn't nursing.
  8. 0
    1911,
    Thanks for the in depth reply, and yes I (was) a medical specialist. Just got out of the Army in Feb. I had taken a bit a college during my time in the Army and got out with about 80 credits ( I truly enjoy psychology), the bad thing is about nursing in my area is it is a 3 year program and would start next fall, bringing my total time invested to about 5 years to get a BSN when i already have 80 credits(school uses about 60). I know that if I were to go the Psychology route I could complete the education around the same time if not a year earlier than the PMHNP. I would have to do the MSN online unless I wanted to become a FNP which I truly do not.
    Maybe I do not understand the flexibility of a Psy.d and am somewhat afraid of uncertainties with residency. Finacially the nurse to PMHNP seems more secure and with a life goal to include a Psy.d it just seemed to be long but benificial. This Dilemma is my own personal curse I think lol, this semester I am going to go to school and just feel it out. I am going to go with what seems to flow for me. Thanks or the info.
  9. 0
    Hi again,
    I have had plenty of PMHNP's who have said their experience and educational background have been of benefit to their admission to Psy.D. programs. In fact, on an application I have, it it listed as being preferable so I am a bit confused but perhaps I missed something.

    I am curious to know what state it is legal for psychologists to prescribe. I am aware that this is a very hot issue which is one reason I went for the PMHNP post masters. The other reason being that I don't enjoy testing. I am not certain that prescriptive privelages will come to psychologists but we shall see. The AMA lobbies long and hard and are not too thrilled about PMHNP's prescribing. Everyone thinks it's not a big deal to prescribe mental health medications but it really is.

    In addition, many NP's do not work under MD's. I don't and many NP's in neighboring states do not. That's what makes many NP's different from PA's. We are independent practitioners. If there are NP's out there who are not YET.... then the lobbying needs to continue because it will happen.
    I know many psych NPs who are making as much if not more than MD's and psychologists merely because there are so many patients out there who need mental health services.
  10. 0
    Rx priviledges for psychologists: New Mexico
  11. 0
    I should have added that Louisiana also has Rx priviledges for psychologists, but a post -doc masters in pharmacology is required. Other states lookin "into" the matter include Hawaii, Tenn.,Conn.,Missouri,and Georgia. However, it surely is a very slow process .
  12. 0
    Quote from 91W
    I appreciate all of the input on these questions. Here are a few more if you have any further insight on these matters.

    1) Can a PMHNP be an autonomous practitioner, or must they be under MD supervision ? (specifically California), furthermore, if one were a PMHNP & Psy.d , would they then be able to prescribe on their own, without being under a MD?

    2) I have seen DNP with a specialty in Psych. is this any different than practicing as a NP?

    There are so many directions a nurse can go. My own goal is to pursue Psychiatric nursing as far as I can go, throughout my life. Thank you for your replys.
    In california NPs do not have a seperate scope of practice from a RN. Nursing functions can be preformed without physician collaberation. Making a medical diagniosis, and RX require MD/DO collaberation under standardized procedures. providing an RX is considered a deligated function.

    Jeremy


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