MS versus DNP - page 2

by DEADBEAR

5,491 Views | 33 Comments

So, just to give a background on what I know (or what I think I know); here it goes... Some CRNA programs I have been looking at are programs where the CRNA student gets a Master's degree when they graduate. Other CRNA... Read More


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    thanks
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    Quote from missnurse01
    inidcrna-any ideas what what types of doctorate crna's are getting instead of the dnap?
    I think many will be DNAP and not DNP as I mentioned in my previous post.
  3. 0
    Quote from wtbcrna
    CRNAs have successfully went from certificate to Bachelors to Masters and now the COA/AANA are going to require new graduates graduating in the year 2025 or later to have a Doctorate (DNP/DNAP). There are still CRNAs with certificates practicing just as they have for years with the same scope of practice as Masters prepared CRNAs. One of the biggest pushes for CRNAs to get a Doctorate is that SRNAs are already doing much more than is required for a normal Masters so why not get the degree to match the credit hours. My nurse anesthesia program we graduated with 82 semester credit hours which approximately twice what a generic MSN or most other Master programs would have required.
    The nurse anesthesia council of accreditation (COA) has proposed that all nurse anesthesia programs move to a minimum of 36 month programs.
    Instead of focusing on the type of degree program offered I would first and foremost recommend consider the program that offers the best clinical experiences and that prepares graduates for independent practice.
    Wow! 82 credit hours? My program was 64 credits and could have easily been 45-60. Yours must have been packed full of even more fluff than is standard.
    I would MUCH rather seen CRNA programs move in the direction of 24 month program and cut out much of the fluff. I realize it's going in the other direction but lets be honest about why. It is all about limiting access to the profession.
    Last edit by IndiCRNA on Jan 3, '13
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    My program was 73 hours, and none of it was 'fluff'. It was also 30 months long-24 months of clinical experience. Remember when you graduate and get your first job as a CRNA, the oreintation period is about 4 hours total-at least in my area of the country. You are expected to function fully from the first day, and a lot of CRNA positions are moving to non-medically directed. You need to look for a program that will prepare you well. I never cared for a patient without a preceptor for 3 months when I first started as an RN in the ICU, I was on my own as a CRNA by the first afternoon.

    All nurse anesthesia programs will only admit students to DNP/DNAP programs beginning January 1, 2022-to graduate in 2025 or later. This is an accreditation standard. NPs have no actual requirement, only a recomendation.

    Grandfathering refers to licensure. As mentioned above, there are CRNAs with no degree who are currently practicing. They have been grandfathered in some states, but many others don't have a degree requirement for licensure but the state requires certification. Recertification has no degree requirement, but currently to first become certified you must graduate with a master's degree. Some states will only license a new CRNA to the state if they have a master's degree-IL is one that comes to mind. As a service to their members, the AANA has given advanced notice for most of the state changes. They announce to the membership that if you want a new license in IL; don't have a current IL license and don't have a master's degree, then you need to get it done prior to the deadline.


    The most important thing is to get the best education possible, regardless of the degree earned.
    wtbcrna likes this.
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    Quote from IndiCRNA
    I think many will be DNAP and not DNP as I mentioned in my previous post.
    I think the majority of NA schools are through nursing schools, so most will be offering DNP degrees. Although, programs like TWU that are extremely large tend skew the total numbers quite a bit.
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    Quote from IndiCRNA
    Wow! 82 credit hours? My program was 64 credits and could have easily been 45-60. Yours must have been packed full of even more fluff than is standard. I would MUCH rather seen CRNA programs move in the direction of 24 month program and cut out much of the fluff. I realize it's going in the other direction but lets be honest about why. It is all about limiting access to the profession.
    IMO SRNAs need more time to assimilate what they have learned. I went to the Uniformed Services Univ, so in typical military fashion it was cram as much possible into your brain in a short amount of time as possible. USUHS has extended their program to 36 months, and is now offering a DNP. They extended both the clinical and didactic time though. IMO I don't think 24 months is enough time to cover all the required material and graduate CRNAs that can perform independently on graduation, which I think should be the goal of every NA program.
    loveanesthesia likes this.
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    Quote from wtbcrna
    IMO SRNAs need more time to assimilate what they have learned. I went to the Uniformed Services Univ, so in typical military fashion it was cram as much possible into your brain in a short amount of time as possible. USUHS has extended their program to 36 months, and is now offering a DNP. They extended both the clinical and didactic time though. IMO I don't think 24 months is enough time to cover all the required material and graduate CRNAs that can perform independently on graduation, which I think should be the goal of every NA program.
    When you say "offering a DNP" does that mean it's an option? The one DNP CRNA program I am familiar with (University of Minnesota) didn't add any clinical or clinicaly related classes when it changed to a 36 month DNP. The students actually do the DNP portion first then go into the exact same 24 month anesthesia program they always have.
    I respectfully disagree about a longer program being needed to train safe and competent CRNAs. My program had plenty of non clincal fluff that could have been cut out to provide more clinical time (though I don't think more was needed). For example the professional writing class, or the 9 credits we wasted writing and defending a paper (in my case) about medical errors. My program was 27 months and I practice completly independently (no other ansethesia provider in the hospital).
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    My program was 73 hours, and none of it was 'fluff'. It was also 30 months long-24 months of clinical experience.

    Mine was 27 months and contained plenty of make work fluff.

    Remember when you graduate and get your first job as a CRNA, the oreintation period is about 4 hours total-at least in my area of the country. You are expected to function fully from the first day, and a lot of CRNA positions are moving to non-medically directed. You need to look for a program that will prepare you well. I never cared for a patient without a preceptor for 3 months when I first started as an RN in the ICU, I was on my own as a CRNA by the first afternoon.
    Well I got 4 days and then was on my own with no other anesthesia provider in the hospital or available on call. No problem at all. I was well prepared by my program. It helped that I had the oppertunity to do quite a bit of rural clinical. I belong to an all CRNA group and we are not medically directed and I have never been medically directed since I was a student

    All nurse anesthesia programs will only admit students to DNP/DNAP programs beginning January 1, 2022-to graduate in 2025 or later. This is an accreditation standard. NPs have no actual requirement, only a recomendation.
    Yep.

    Grandfathering refers to licensure. As mentioned above, there are CRNAs with no degree who are currently practicing. They have been grandfathered in some states, but many others don't have a degree requirement for licensure but the state requires certification. Recertification has no degree requirement, but currently to first become certified you must graduate with a master's degree.
    Yep the senior partner in our group doesn't have a degree in anything, not even an associates degree. He went to a hospital dipiloma RN program and then an 18 month CRNA certificate program at a Chatholic hospital in IL. He is well into his 60's, has worked is a huge variety of enviroments, and is THE master of anestesia.

    The most important thing is to get the best education possible, regardless of the degree earned.
    I agree. What I am dismayed by is the make work fluff being added to anesthesia programs to make them doctorate degree.
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    Quote from wtbcrna
    I think the majority of NA schools are through nursing schools, so most will be offering DNP degrees. Although, programs like TWU that are extremely large tend skew the total numbers quite a bit.
    I think only a minority of CRNA school are through nursing schools. Last time I looked was before I went to school but if I remeber right only about 30% were based out of schools of nursing. There are 5 programs in my area four in MN and one in WI and only one of them is based in a school of nursing. I wonder what degree the programs that grant neither the MSN or MNAP will end up with. For example the program here in Wisconsin grants a masters of biology. I also wonder about all the program based in schools that currently don't offer any doctorate degrees.
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    Quote from IndiCRNA
    When you say "offering a DNP" does that mean it's an option? The one DNP CRNA program I am familiar with (University of Minnesota) didn't add any clinical or clinicaly related classes when it changed to a 36 month DNP. The students actually do the DNP portion first then go into the exact same 24 month anesthesia program they always have. I respectfully disagree about a longer program being needed to train safe and competent CRNAs. My program had plenty of non clincal fluff that could have been cut out to provide more clinical time (though I don't think more was needed). For example the professional writing class, or the 9 credits we wasted writing and defending a paper (in my case) about medical errors. My program was 27 months and I practice completly independently (no other ansethesia provider in the hospital).
    lol... The DNP is like everything else in the military you are told what to do and the type of degree you need to get. We know that individual NA schools are highly variable. There are a lot of programs that do not prepare their students for independent practice. One of premises behind DNP is to make APNs consumers of research. Right now as a group medical professionals do a poor job of incorporating research into practice. It takes approximately 17years for research to make into practice. We can see examples of this in anesthesia (phenylenephrine in ob, the myth of compound a, low dose droperidol increasing qt intervals greater than other drugs etc.) I disagree with core curriculum of the DNP. That is why I am doing a DNAP, but I agree with the fundamental ideas behind getting clinical doctorate for APNs.


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