by Hoss

I have noticed that a few very top rated Universities offer MSN program (SLU Baguio City and Silliman Univ. to name a couple). I assume this is quite different than the MAN degree program offered by other Universities. Is the MSN degree accepted in the USA? I know the MAN is not. Would love to hear comments from MSN grads in the Philippines and how your degree has been accepted by other countries.

Hoss

Re: MAN vs. MSN degree in Philippines

What's the difference between MAN and MSN? I really don't have an idea.

Re: MAN vs. MSN degree in Philippines

Are there ANY Filipino MSN graduates who's degree from the Philippines was accepted in the USA or Canada? I would appreciate your comments/suggestions as to whether to pursue the MSN (NOT MAN degree) for a nurse waiting the 4 or 5 years for retrogression to lift while in the Philippines.

Thank You!

Hoss

Re: MAN vs. MSN degree in Philippines

Originally Posted by Hoss

Are there ANY Filipino MSN graduates who's degree from the Philippines was accepted in the USA or Canada? I would appreciate your comments/suggestions as to whether to pursue the MSN (NOT MAN degree) for a nurse waiting the 4 or 5 years for retrogression to lift while in the Philippines.

Thank You!

Hoss

I think you are not getting any response because the transition from MAN to MSN in some of the schools in the Philippines is still new and there may not be a lot of graduates yet who have made it to the US given the retrogression Filipino nurses are faced with. Given the nature of MSN programs in the US, I think that it won't be worth it to pursue the MSN in the Philippines if one is thinking about working in the US.

Master's degree programs in nursing in the US are mostly about specialization. Majority of MSN's in US universities are actually training programs for two different groups of specialization: advanced practice nursing, and non-advanced practice nursing. Advanced practice nursing is an umbrella term used by Boards of Nursing in the US for Nurse Practitioners, Clinical Nurse Specialists, Certified Nurse Midwives, and Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists. Specific MSN programs are aimed at training nurses for these roles.

On the other hand, there are also MSN programs that train nurses in non-advanced practice nursing fields such as nursing education, administration, informatics, and newer Clinical Nurse Leader role.

That being said, I doubt if a fresh hire from the Philippines, even with an MSN degree, will have enough credibility and background experience to function in the roles I have described above in the US health care setting. I just don't see a US employer giving credit to a Filipino nurse with an MSN degree especially when US health care facilities are hiring foreign nurses in entry-level RN positions only.

Re: MAN vs. MSN degree in Philippines

Very nice response, thanks!! I am contacting the Dean of the CON at St Luis Univ. here in Baguio to get some more clarification as you are indicating these MSN programs are quite new in the Philippines. I also have contacted the DON of a major group of LTC's in the USA as a start to get an opinion, so hopefully some clarification will be forthcomming. I don't believe Silliman and SLU Colleges of Nursing would go lightly into this graduate area as they are 2 of the top 5 Universities in Nursing and Science here in Asia.

Unfortunately CGFNS does not have an email contact for credentials evaluation as I would hope they could give me some input as to these degrees as well. If anyone is near one of their offices in the USA, I would greatly appreciate a "heads up" on their opinion regarding this.

Hoss

Re: MAN vs. MSN degree in Philippines

The issue with the MSN degree that is done in most other countries is that it does not fulfill the requirements for an advanced practice nurse in the US, and this is what is needed for many of the jobs that require the MSN.

Especially when you see an ad for the MSN for an LTC, that is for a nurse that has prescriptive capabilities and that requires additional assessment and pharmacology courses. Please be aware that it is quite difficult to get just these few courses in the US, most programs have residency requirements of specific number of hours to be able to get a degree from them over here as well.

And since the programs are so new in your country, would not recommend going that route if the NP is the route that you are thinking of. It will be very hard to get a job in that field without any experience here in the US first.

Re: MAN vs. MSN degree in Philippines

With all due respect to both Silliman and St. Louis Universities, as both are excellent schools, any MSN program that is completed in the Philippines will not be able to prepare a nurse to function in the advanced roles that MSN training offers in the US. I think any MSN program completed in the Philippines will lack adequate exposure to the complexities in the US health care setting. Anyone can be taught with a textbook written by American authors but the actual field exposure and clinical experiences available to students in the Philippines is entirely different than what MSN students actually get exposed to in US universities.

Suzanne gave the perfect example with nurse practitioners. There isn't even such a role in the Philippines so how would one prepare for such a role in a Philippine-based educational institution? In addition, State Boards of Nursing are very specific on what educational programs and clinical rotations a student completed prior to even being allowed to sit for certification in advanced practice nursing fields.

I'm also curious to find out what the LTC group tells you. I have some experience in LTC when I was starting out here in the US. Most directors of nursing in LTC facilities do not even have MSN degrees. Some do not even have a BSN. Why then would this be a requirement to gain employment in LTC and wouldn't it just be a waste of tuition money to pursue this degree then?

I do, however, encourage a nurse to pursue graduate studies. Nothing beats advancing ones knowledge through education. If one is thinking of advancing one's career in the Philippines by teaching or being an administrator in a Philippine hospital or educational setting, I think an MSN is a good way to start. If one is interested in working in the US, it's best to wait and get the degree here once you've started working in our hospitals and health care facilities.

Re: MAN vs. MSN degree in Philippines

I thought I would post the reply from the Dean of CoN, St. Luis University:

> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:44:47 +0800
> From: cndean@slu.edu.ph
> To: xxxxxx@msn.com
> Subject: Re: MSN Degree Information
>
> Dear Mr. K,
>
> The MSN program has been acepted in the US but Im not sure if it is acepted in
> Canada. the MSN degree has been considered a qualification for managerial
> positions. Although the MSN program is towards specialization for
> medical-surgical nursing, psychitaric nursing, maternal and child nursing,
> community health nursing and nursing administration, the program does not
> prepare the nurse for a specific advanced practice. This is not automatically
> recognized abroad so more training and a certification will still be needed to
> be recognized as advanced practitioner.
>
> Dr. Mary Grace Lacanaria



I can recognize the need for additional residency and course requirements for specialization (As Suzanne pointed out) but it is quite encouraging to see the MSN itself is indeed acceptable and will prevent a lot of duplication of course study in the US.

Hoss

Re: MAN vs. MSN degree in Philippines

Sorry, but again, that is not how things are done in the US. One cannot just take a few of the missing classes and expect to be issued a degree from that facility; it is required to have x-number of hours in what we call residency in that one facility. So it is not feasable to just think that one can come here and then take a couple of classes and be able to get advanced practice status. This is where the jobs are when they require the MSN, and also that is needed for the EB-2 green cards in most cases.

You will find it hard to get hired in management role in the US with the degree from your country as nursing is practiced very differently here in almost every aspect.

The MSN can be a great thing if it is completed in the US and then it can go for the EB-2 and qualify in many cases for advanced practice standing.
Even for those that are wishing to go the MSN route in your country, or even the MAN, most have little to no actual work experience in a hospital setting so it becomes hard to be a leader when you have not done it to begin with.

It comes down to if you are going to stay in your country and wish to use it for management, then great. But if your goal is to work in the US with the MSN, wait until you can get it completed here. You are going to have to repeat too many hours to get the degree again here and that is needed in most cases for any advanced practice or clinical nurse specialist role, especially from your country at this time.

Re: MAN vs. MSN degree in Philippines

And just because a degree is accepted here, still does not mean than an employer will hire you for a job that needs that training as an entry level without having experience first in the US as a bedside nurse.

If asking for our opinions on what to do; I would not go for the program there unless you are planning to remain there. It is also a new program as well and you do not know how it is going to be received either.