Paleo/Primal Diet? - page 4

by 7student7 14,270 Views | 49 Comments

Does anyone have any experience with the Paleo diet? Like what you'd see on Mark's Daily Apple or PaNu - PāNu Blog . Did anyone have a positive (or negative) experience with it? Do you see any major flaws? Is this something you... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from Asystole RN
    Really? Thats funny because after 4 seconds of searching I located a meta-analysis on the Mediterranean diet that encompassed 1.5 million study subjects.

    Sofi, F., Cesari, F., Abbate, R., Gensini, G.F., Casini, A. (2008). Adherence to Mediterranean diet and health status: meta-analysis. Retrieved from Adherence to Mediterranean diet and health status: meta-analysis

    Try again my friend.

    Please indulge the class,

    Can you cite me a single professional healthcare organization that supports the paleo diet?

    Can you cite a single example as to how there is a conspiracy by professional organizations that is attempting to hold down the paleo diet?

    Cite a meta-analysis or similar statistical analysis literature review study that demonstrates a correlation factor of 0.3 or greater with a study group of 1,000 or larger that demonstrates that the paleo does any of the magical things it is claimed to do.
    My fault, I didn't realize it was strictly meta-analysis you required. I was referring to a Randomized Controlled Trails with subject over 1,000. Nevertheless, there are some in that list I supplied.
  2. 0
    Quote from mingez
    My fault, I didn't realize it was strictly meta-analysis you required. I was referring to Randomized Controlled Trails with subject over 1,000. Nevertheless, there are some in that list I supplied.
    Single studies, even studies with groups of tens of thousands are not reliable due to study specific variables. This is why meta-analysis and other statistical analysis is so important, it looks at the trends of many studies to help mitigate study specific variables and forms a statistical correlation. You will learn this in your professional research class.

    So which study is a meta-analysis or similar statistical analysis literature review study that demonstrates a correlation factor of 0.3 or greater with a study group of 1,000 or larger that demonstrates that the paleo diet does any of the magical things it is claimed to do?
  3. 4
    Drink water, eat a sensible diet, (omnivores have a lot of choices here) and exercise.

    Oh, and fad diets are usually stupid.
    Aurora77, rnmi2004, Not_A_Hat_Person, and 1 other like this.
  4. 1
    @AsystoleRN
    I think MINGEZ clarified your question regarding the ADA quite well...as that is what I had in mind when I wrote the statement.

    I was not attemting to make an opposing statments when I said it is correct that it is NOT the RN's place to give dietary advice. Technically that is a true statement, but as MINGEZ has pointed out either you are the kind of person that will do what you think is right or you will do what policy demands of you. Sometimes those things coincide, sometimes they don't. When policy and your critcally thinking brain don't meet up then that is the deciding moment one choses what kind of person they are. I respect and understand both actions, I'm just the kind of person that goes with my critically thinking brain instead of what someone else tells me I'm suppose to do.

    I think the current ADA advice is killing people. I know that the paleo diet is a lifestyle choice just as much as the recommended ADA diet is. In an effort to get my patient's to THINK, I give them sources for several diets to help them chose one that may fit their lifestyle. I think the paleo diet fits the majority of my patient's lifestyles and thus I give information on it quite a bit.

    @ MINGEZ This is why I mentioned that it is NOT a nurse's place to give diet advice. While I commend your efforts to be well informed and a resource to your patients, being a critical thinker and an individual can easily get you fired in this field.
    mingez likes this.
  5. 4
    I don't think many would argue that compared to the standard Western diet, a diet of mainly vegetables, fruits, nuts and fish and without sweetened or processed foods is healthier. If referring to that as a "paleolithic" diet is what gets people to eat that way, then I'm not going to argue with it.

    That being said, I will argue just for the sake of arguing.
    While it is true that fruits, veggies, nuts, etc are healthy, and also happened to be part of the paleolithic diet, assuming that this means all aspects of the paleolithic diet is healthy is bad logic. That's like saying because oranges and carrots are healthy, every orange colored food must be healthy and adopting an "orange" diet, even thought that may include large portions of circus peanuts and cheeze-whiz. (I went through multiple examples of diets that I thought were too ridiculous to be true, and kept having to start over because it turned out each one actually existed, including the "orange colored food" diet, so I finally gave up.)

    This is what separates a science based diet from a fad diet. A fad diet is based on a gimmick (eat like a caveman!) Rather than eating what the science says is best, you eat only what conforms to the gimmick. For the most part, this isn't a huge problem with the paleo diet since most of it happens to be healthy. However there are still examples of where adherence to the "gimmick" conflicts with the science. The paleo diet welcomes root vegetables such as potatoes and yams, ie unhealthy simple starches, yet at the same time shuns much healthier complex carbs such as oatmeal.

    There is a lot of evidence that certain aspects of paleo diet are healthy, although using that as proof that the paleo diet as a whole is scientifically based is flawed. Using the same trick I could argue that my circus peanut/cheeze-whiz/carrot based orange diet is scientifically proven to be healthy because I can provide a study that shows carrots are healthy.

    Of the studies that look at paleo diets as a whole many of them are pretty weak, which is a little surprising since it shouldn't be that hard to show that a diet which for the most part follows basic healthy eating principles is in fact healthy. I hate to cherry pick, but let's look at one study in particular; the Osterdahl et al study "Effects of a short-term intervention with a paleolithic diet in healthy volunteers." This study had a 30% dropout rate, particularly concerning for a study that only started with 20 subjects. In the end, complete data was only available for 6 of the subjects and there was no control group in the study. The fact that this was even published by a supposedly reputable journal is depressing.

    The upside to gimmicky/fad diets is that their novelty often succeeds in changing people's eating habits, in the same way a good "hook" in a pop song grabs your attention, the downside is that the catchy hook of a song that you can't get enough of at first eventually gets old, making fad diets sort of the nutritional version of the Macarena.

    In the end, I am in now way opposed to fad diets that produce overall healthier eating habits in people than would have occurred otherwise, even if it is intermittent. And as I sit here enjoying pizza and an IPA, I certainly can't criticize Mingez for his dietary habits which are far superior to mine or his commitment to them; more power to you.
    Last edit by MunoRN on Feb 13, '12
  6. 0
    Eloquently put MunoRN. I guess my main objection is that I believe the ADA recomendations are not as scientifically absloute as they are put forth to be by medicine. Even the restructured food pyramid does not seem 'healthy' to me. My issue would be that, as you pointed out with your carrot example, all studies can be slanted to whomever wants the data. So if I'm a farmer I'm sure as heck going to put the money forth so some scientist can tell the world that my grains are a good staple in their diet. Same goes for cow meat, chickens, etc. The government provides large subsidies for grains and meat, thus how much can you trust food recommendations from the government?

    The old and new food pyramids still suggest that the largest portion of a person's calories come from grains. With type II diabetes becoming an ever increasing issue in our population today I don't see any food recommendation that states the largest portion of one's caloric intake should be from carbohydrate rich foods as a logical one. Carbs are sugar, even the good slow insulin rising ones are just sugar. I realize that the brain needs carbs to work, that everyone needs to eat some carbs to be healthy, but I just don't see the logic in suggesting that the largest portion of ones caloric intake should be from sugar....even 'good' sugar.

    I don't understand why the government doesn't realize that too....oh, wait...it's because the people doing the studies are not looking out for my best interest...they are looking out for their cash flow.

    I suggest the dietary resources I do to my patients (unless they have kidney problems, cancer, or some other medical issue that would deter me from giving them 'average' advice) because it is advice that is low in carbs and saturated fats.
  7. 0
    Quote from MunoRN
    I don't think many would argue that compared to the standard Western diet, a diet of mainly vegetables, fruits, nuts and fish and without sweetened or processed foods is healthier. If referring to that as a "paleolithic" diet is what gets people to eat that way, then I'm not going to argue with it.

    That being said, I will argue just for the sake of arguing.
    While it is true that fruits, veggies, nuts, etc are healthy, and also happened to be part of the paleolithic diet, assuming that this means all aspects of the paleolithic diet is healthy is bad logic. That's like saying because oranges and carrots are healthy, every orange colored food must be healthy and adopting an "orange" diet, even thought that may include large portions of circus peanuts and cheeze-whiz. (I went through multiple examples of diets that I thought were too ridiculous to be true, and kept having to start over because it turned out each one actually existed, including the "orange colored food" diet, so I finally gave up.)

    This is what separates a science based diet from a fad diet. A fad diet is based on a gimmick (eat like a caveman!) Rather than eating what the science says is best, you eat only what conforms to the gimmick. For the most part, this isn't a huge problem with the paleo diet since most of it happens to be healthy. However there are still examples of where adherence to the "gimmick" conflicts with the science. The paleo diet welcomes root vegetables such as potatoes and yams, ie unhealthy simple starches, yet at the same time shuns much healthier complex carbs such as oatmeal.

    There is a lot of evidence that certain aspects of paleo diet are healthy, although using that as proof that the paleo diet as a whole is scientifically based is flawed. Using the same trick I could argue that my circus peanut/cheeze-whiz/carrot based orange diet is scientifically proven to be healthy because I can provide a study that shows carrots are healthy.

    Of the studies that look at paleo diets as a whole many of them are pretty weak, which is a little surprising since it shouldn't be that hard to show that a diet which for the most part follows basic healthy eating principles is in fact healthy. I hate to cherry pick, but let's look at one study in particular; the Osterdahl et al study "Effects of a short-term intervention with a paleolithic diet in healthy volunteers." This study had a 30% dropout rate, particularly concerning for a study that only started with 20 subjects. In the end, complete data was only available for 6 of the subjects and there was no control group in the study. The fact that this was even published by a supposedly reputable journal is depressing.

    The upside to gimmicky/fad diets is that their novelty often succeeds in changing people's eating habits, in the same way a good "hook" in a pop song grabs your attention, the downside is that the catchy hook of a song that you can't get enough of at first eventually gets old, making fad diets sort of the nutritional version of the Macarena.

    In the end, I am in now way opposed to fad diets that produce overall healthier eating habits in people than would have occurred otherwise, even if it is intermittent. And as I sit here enjoying pizza and an IPA, I certainly can't criticize Mingez for his dietary habits which are far superior to mine or his commitment to them; more power to you.
    I checked 4 sites, didn't find any that accepted potatoes or sweet potatoes...and did you know that it was started by a GI doc?
  8. 0
    Quote from morte
    I checked 4 sites, didn't find any that accepted potatoes or sweet potatoes...and did you know that it was started by a GI doc?
    I noticed that there are surprising number of inconsistencies for something that seems to be somewhat absolute by design, the paleo position on starches is definitely one of those topics that doesn't have 100% agreement. But the widely accepted position seems to be that sweet potatoes and yams are acceptable. My impression is that Robb Wolf is considered an authority on paleo, he stated "Paleo friendly carbohydrate such as yams, sweet potatoes," FAQ
    I also found what appears to be a popular paleo site with recipes, that included sweet potato fries, soup, and casserole: Paleo Diet Recipes | Home of delicious paleo recipes
    I also found this comment: "Potatoes are probably the most favored starch source in the paleo community for several reasons." Are sweet potatoes Paleo? - PaleoHacks.com
  9. 1
    Sigh...Atkins, Zone, South Beach, Paleo, next??? Maybe portion control, exercise (cardio AND weights), non-processed foods, eliminate red meat, fresh fish once a week, eat your veggies. Sorry, no fancy or catchy name, just common sense. For the one who posted that the Paleo diet was/is a cure-all for your entire family - happy for you and yours and hope it continues.
    Aurora77 likes this.
  10. 0
    Go to Dr. Oz site and Beyond Diet for both. The first question in my mind is to ask the client to keep a food diary. Find out what is acceptable to them both financial and esotheric. I have been trying myself to eat nonprocessed foods, growing my own food and canning, and we may even get some chickens and turkeys. There is evidence out there. Take an ecology course or even watch Food INC movie. I know that since swichting to a diet with more fruits and vegies and whole grain sprout bread, I am not bloated and droping pounds. With any patient education, I feel you have to find out their info first and then help them to find what will work for them.


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