Would You Accept Swine Flu Vaccine?

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  1. Would You Take the Swine Flu Vaccine?

    • 89
      Yes
    • 144
      No
    • 48
      Depends

281 members have participated

indigo girl

5,173 Posts

Specializes in Too many to list.

ozoneranger

373 Posts

Specializes in Acute post op ortho.

I wonder if the test subjects in the clinical trial will be given the same vaccine we will be asked (or mandated) to take?

Somehow, I doubt our troops would have lined up for the anthrax vaccine, had they known the consequences.

http://www.autoimmune.com/GWSGen.html

Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
I wonder if the test subjects in the clinical trial will be given the same vaccine we will be asked (or mandated) to take?

Somehow, I doubt our troops would have lined up for the anthrax vaccine, had they known the consequences.

http://www.autoimmune.com/GWSGen.html

I've been reading about how the swine flu vaccine may have an adjuvant, squalene, that has not been given in the US (except to certain military members). If the vaccine contains squalene, I'll pass and take my chances with the flu. If it lacks squalene, I'll line up for it.

Here's some research and information on squalene used as an adjuvant:

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/abstract/156/6/2057

Our demonstration that an autoadjuvant can trigger chronic, immune-mediated joint-specific inflammation may give clues to the pathogenesis of rheumatoid arthritis, and it raises new questions concerning the role of endogenous molecules with adjuvant properties in chronic inflammatory diseases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome

One study found that deployed Persian Gulf War Syndrome patients are significantly more likely to have antibodies to the experimental vaccine adjuvant squalene (95 percent) than asymptomatic Gulf War veterans (0 percent; p<.001 href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome#cite_note-18">[19] which raises the possibility that squalene was used experimentally (squalene is not approved for use as an adjuvant in the United States[20]) in the Anthrax vaccine given to soldiers prior to deployment in the Persian Gulf War to better induce immunity...

Despite repeated assurances that the vaccine was safe and necessary, a U.S. Federal Judge ruled that there was good cause to believe it was harmful, and he ordered the Pentagon to stop administering it in October 2004.[25] The ban was lifted in February 2008 after the FDA re-examined and approved the drug again. Anthrax vaccine is the only substance suspected in Persian Gulf War syndrome to which forced exposure has since been banned to protect troops from it.[26]

Subsequent anthrax vaccines, however, have met with approval. On December 15, 2005, the Food and Drug Administration, released a Final Order finding that the current anthrax vaccines are safe and effective.[27][28][29] The anthrax vaccine currently used is not the same vaccine that was issued during the First Gulf War.[30]

Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1206807/Swine-flu-jab-link-killer-nerve-disease-Leaked-letter-reveals-concern-neurologists-25-deaths-America.html

Dr Tom Jefferson, co-ordinator of the vaccines section of the influential Cochrane Collaboration, an independent group that reviews research, said: ‘New vaccines never behave in the way you expect them to. It may be that there is a link to GBS, which is certainly not something I would wish on anybody.

‘But it could end up being anything because one of the additives in one of the vaccines is a substance called squalene, and none of the studies we’ve extracted have any research on it at all.’

He said squalene, a naturally occurring enzyme, could potentially cause so-far-undiscovered side effects.

The quote from the doctor at the Cochrane Collaboration caught my attention since that organization is so credible.

misswoosie

429 Posts

Specializes in ICU,ANTICOAG,ACUTE STROKE,EDU,RESEARCH.

All NHS employees received an email from the chief exec of the NHS recently, saying that the vaccine will be available from Sept. Urges all staff who have direct patient contact to have it. They have only just begun testing it on humans in the UK and USA. Unless the number of deaths due to swine flu dramatically increases and they provide enough safety information for me to make an informed decsision then I will not be having it.

http://living.aol.co.uk/health/30percent-of-nurses-dont-want-flu/article/20090817190840073137293?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fliving.aol.co.uk%2Fhealth%2F30percent-of-nurses-dont-want-flu%2Farticle%2F20090817190840073137293

He is quoted as saying we have a duty to our patients-but what about ourselves? I don't believe that there is anything in my contract or in the NMC code about accepting risky vaccines that may not be effective in order to protect my patients.I don'r even have the seasonal flu shot.

How about the sickness review policies that often make nurses feel under pressure to come to work when they have a virus, or return to work too soon after a period of sickness? Never hear the DOH showing concern about nurses duty to protect patients in those situations.

http://living.aol.co.uk/health/health-fitness-news/nerve-disease-alert-over-flu-jab/article/2009081602065697911028?rsp=Health%20News

Saying there is no evidence of inc risk of GB with this vaccine, but how do they know this?

They need to be more transparent regarding the vaccine development process and let us make informed decisions rather than telling us we have a duty to patients and treating us like numpties.

Just my 2p worth.

misswoosie

429 Posts

Specializes in ICU,ANTICOAG,ACUTE STROKE,EDU,RESEARCH.

Here is something else to consider when thinking of the numbers of US fatalities. The CDC tells us that probably a million people were infected, in the US, and this was well over a month ago. Yet, they report only about 350 deaths. This does not make sense. In the UK, where they were still testing until recently, the death rate is reported to be 1 or 2 per thousand. If the rate there is comparable to the rate here, and it probably is, than they should have reported about 1000 deaths. What is wrong with this picture? The answer has to be that they are not listing all of the US deaths as being caused by swine flu. For example, if you have COPD, but you also have swine flu, you might be listed as dying from COPD. Does anyone remember the GP that died in the UK? He was known to have H1N1, but the initial coroner report said that he died of natural causes. This was publicly and loudly questioned. The coroner changed the dx on the final report to swine flu. Do you see what I mean? The US number of deaths are most likely being undercounted.

1.Why would the death rate in the UK be comparable to that in the USA?

2.The GP actually had a massive pulmonary embolism.

I am curious to know why people think the vaccine is safe to give to pregnant women? Unfortunately they are at inc risk of comlications from any viral infection inc seasonal flu.

Someone posted that they have never seen anyone die of GB. That is probabaly true as the complications of immobility and artificial ventilation are more likely to kill you if you get it severely.

It may not kill people but if you have ever nursed anyone with it it can be severely debilitating.

indigo girl

5,173 Posts

Specializes in Too many to list.

The GP actually had a massive pulmonary embolism.

Yes, he did indeed. Here is what was reported about it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8161680.stm

A post-mortem examination carried out on Bedfordshire GP Dr Michael Day found that swine flu was a significant factor in his death on 11 July.

In a statement, NHS Bedfordshire said: "The final coroner's report following the post-mortem into Dr Day's death has confirmed that swine flu was a significant contributory factor into his death."

In addition, Dr Day, 64, suffered a blood clot to the lungs and was known to have high blood pressure and heart disease...

The docs over at Effect Measure had some interesting things to say about how the GP's death was reported, as well as about influenza cases and PE.

http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2009/07/swine_flu_how_not_to_report_a.php

Why would the death rate in the UK be comparable to that in the USA?

Considering the tremendous amount of Tamiflu the UK has been dispensing lately, I no longer think it a good comparison. It is much more difficult to receive this antiviral drug in the US.

About pregnant women, and the risk of complications from influenza:

Unfortunately they are at inc risk of comlications from any viral infection inc seasonal flu.

Here is an excerpt from The Great Influenza:

As far back as the year 1557, observers connected influenza with miscarriage and the death of pregnant women. In thirteen studies of hospitalized pregnant women during the 1918 pandemic, the death rate ranged from 23% to 71%. Of the pregnant women who survived, 26% lost the child. And, these women were the most likely group to already have other children, so an unknown but enormous number of children lost their mothers.

Yes, they are more at risk. And, they are at an even greater risk during pandemics which is why I began collecting info on these cases. It would be difficult not to notice how much the virus is targeting this group.

I do not have any comparable data on deaths from seasonal flu in pregnancy. Do you?

RuRnurse?

129 Posts

The mandating part bothers me as well. No one forces this girl to do anything. I always get the seasonal flu shot, but I am having serious issues with this swine flu vaccine. It seems like a rush job to me, and that makes me very nervous. I too, remember the swine flu fiasco of the 70's...

indigo girl

5,173 Posts

Specializes in Too many to list.

I respect the choices of everyone about this new vaccine.

I don't much like mandating anything that you have to put in your body either.

For that reason alone, many will refuse. We are a stubborn bunch.

CrunchRN, ADN, RN

4,530 Posts

Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.

I would kind of like to just kiss a pig right now (so to speak) and get it over with and then there would be no need for vaccine or anticipation of being ill.

Also, they may mandate, but it sounds like they will have problems having enough for those mandated.

indigo girl

5,173 Posts

Specializes in Too many to list.
I would kind of like to just kiss a pig right now (so to speak) and get it over with and then there would be no need for vaccine or anticipation of being ill.

Also, they may mandate, but it sounds like they will have problems having enough for those mandated.

Sounds like it. The way things are going though, we will be naturally immunized by the time they get the vax out, and save them the trouble.

lamazeteacher

2,170 Posts

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.
I wonder if the test subjects in the clinical trial will be given the same vaccine we will be asked (or mandated) to take?

Somehow, I doubt our troops would have lined up for the anthrax vaccine, had they known the consequences.

http://www.autoimmune.com/GWSGen.html

Troops obey orders, and would line up for anything their CO tells them to have!

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