Mandatory Flu Vaccines- How do you feel? - page 11

by Snowbird17 25,603 Views | 206 Comments

Anyone else upset by the requirement to take flu vaccine or else... not even a mask option??? Only way out is a MD note stating "severe" allergy. Why is it we can't force our patients but our hospitals can force us. I am... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from wooh
    IIRC, redhead has a JD, so I'm betting she knows the difference.
    I think redhead was saying the same thing you just said, that anyone could file a suit for that, leading to annoyance and fun for the person sued, but unlikely to win.
    Which is not what they said in the first place. They said "So no, lawsuit won't happen. Court requires proof." They did not specify they were referring to someone WINNING a lawsuit AT ALL. The "lawsuit" HAS HAPPENED and WILL HAPPEN, over and over again, without proof, and will always result in $$$ being spent, either defending, settling, or both. So yes, anything that allows someone to think they have the right to bring a suit is a real concern for facilities.
  2. 2
    Quote from Jory
    Honey, let me give you some education very quickly.

    I could hire an attorney right now, to get a court order, track down your Allnurses.com screen name right back to your ISP which is like getting an address to your house and sue you just because I don't like this post.

    I can FILE anything I want.

    THAT DOESN'T MEAN I'LL WIN AND COLLECT A DIME.

    Yes, I said "won"...go back and re-read my post. I can tell by your post that you don't know the difference between FILING and WINNING.

    PS: You can only collect if you win and even that, is if you have something to take.

    The vast majority of malpractice cases, just so you know, are taken ON CONTINGENCY by lawyers. You really think some sick guy has $250/hr to pay an attorney for a case that can take years to win? Uh, that would be a no.

    That is because, most malpractice attorneys ONLY TAKE CASES THEY THINK THEY CAN WIN!!!!

    An UNPROVABLE accusation such as getting the flu while you are a patient in a hospital while you are receiving visitors and tracing that back to a SINGLE NURSE, is not proveable by any stretch of the imagination, not even in the Twilight Zone.
    Your pejorative remarks only make you look foolish.

    Many (most?) lawsuits settle without actually going before a judge/trial. You can "win" without winning. The threat of an expensive and lengthy lawsuit is a strong incentive to settle.

    There is another thread about Philipino nurses suing a hospital over discrimination. The hospital settled for $1M.
    brillohead and redhead_NURSE98! like this.
  3. 0
    Quote from Asystole RN
    Many (most?) lawsuits settle without actually going before a judge/trial. You can "win" without winning. The threat of an expensive and lengthy lawsuit is a strong incentive to settle.
    The last estimate I saw was over 95 (yes NINETY-FIVE!!!!) percent. Med mal is quite a bit lower I know, but still way more often than not. I'd take those odds and so do most lawyers who call themselves med mal attorneys!
    Last edit by redhead_NURSE98! on Oct 9, '12
  4. 0
    And the Beat Goes On...
  5. 1
    Quote from wooh
    IIRC, redhead has a JD, so I'm betting she knows the difference.
    I think redhead was saying the same thing you just said, that anyone could file a suit for that, leading to annoyance and fun for the person sued, but unlikely to win.
    Alleged JD. I take everything with a grain of salt on the internet.

    I also asked her to post a case (of a lawsuit won because a family claimed the nurse gave the patient the flu that wasn't vaccinated)...so far, she hasn't posted one. Again, MY POINT, has been proven. If she has a JD, it clearly explains why she doesn't work in law because those jobs sort of require a basic understanding of the concepts.

    That is the first thing a corporate attorney is going to look at...has a case EVER been won on that basis? If the answer is no...trust me, they won't pay. Filed or not. This is called "case law".

    What amazes me is that she doesn't seem to know that just because a case is filed, a facility will only pay if they think they won't win or a chance, they will lose.

    I'm surprised a group of educated healthcare professionals that have posted to this recently cannot figure out that you cannot prove that a SINGLE unvaccinated nurse gave a patient the flu if the patient has visitors and even then. It's completely laughable.
    Last edit by Jory on Oct 11, '12
    JMBnurse likes this.
  6. 1
    Quote from Asystole RN
    Your pejorative remarks only make you look foolish.

    Many (most?) lawsuits settle without actually going before a judge/trial. You can "win" without winning. The threat of an expensive and lengthy lawsuit is a strong incentive to settle.

    There is another thread about Philipino nurses suing a hospital over discrimination. The hospital settled for $1M.
    Hospitals will always pay if:

    1) The family is asking for a nominal amount of money...according to our corporate attorney, the most common request from filed lawsuits is for the family to simply, not pay their bill.

    2) The facility believes they have a CHANCE of losing.

    3) The facility believes they are SURE they will lose.

    4) The family has substantial resources to continue a case to make it more expensive than settling (key).

    They will not pay:

    1) Cases that are baseless...where the family cannot possibly prove their accusations because the proof does not exist.

    2) Well-documented cases where the ducks line up like soldiers.

    Discrimination is a different animal. Anytime you involve someone in a protected class, I can tell you now there is ALWAYS chance a facility will lose.

    Back around to the original point, if a patient receives visitors, plus being attended to by nurses and other staff workers, and one nurse wasn't vaccinated against the flu, if the patient gets sick, you cannot prove that the patient got the flu from the non-vaccinated nurse and NO OTHER POSSIBLE SOURCE. One almost cannot even list all the variables of how the infection could occur.
    JMBnurse likes this.
  7. 0
    Quote from Jory
    Alleged JD. I take everything with a grain of salt on the internet.

    I also asked her to post a case (of a lawsuit won because a family claimed the nurse gave the patient the flu that wasn't vaccinated)...so far, she hasn't posted one. Again, MY POINT, has been proven. If she has a JD, it clearly explains why she doesn't work in law because those jobs sort of require a basic understanding of the concepts.
    Actually you didn't ask me to do that, but it doesn't surprise me that you have no idea who you are replying to half the time.

    Quote from Jory

    That is the first thing a corporate attorney is going to look at...has a case EVER been won on that basis? If the answer is no...trust me, they won't pay. Filed or not. This is called "case law".
    It IS? Thanks for the education!

    Quote from Jory

    What amazes me is that she doesn't seem to know that just because a case is filed, a facility will only pay if they think they won't win or a chance, they will lose.
    What amazes me is that you don't seem to know that there is ALWAYS a chance they will lose, and just how often they pay something even when there is a very small chance they will lose. What also amazes me is that you don't seem to understand the staggering costs of litigating any suit, no matter how small, and seem to have no concept of how that weighs into the chances that a med mal attorney will take a crappy case.

    Quote from Jory
    I'm surprised a group of educated healthcare professionals that have posted to this recently cannot figure out that you cannot prove that a SINGLE unvaccinated nurse gave a patient the flu if the patient has visitors and even then. It's completely laughable.
    It's completely laughable that you don't realize that NO ONE EVER SAID THAT.

    I think this whole subject might just be over your head. Sorry we are embarrassing you.
  8. 3
    Lets get back on topic ---

    The other day I was in a health care facility. I saw three big burly guys in uniforms chase down and tackle a petite young nurse. She struggled to get away, but two of them held her down while the third reached into his pocket and pulled out a vial and syringe. He quickly and deftly administered a mandatory flu vaccination. They let her up and she was free to resume her nursely duties.

    Did this really happen? No, of course not. But by the content of some of the posts in this thread you would think it was an everyday occurrence.

    No HCW is "forced" to take a flu shot in our society. You are only "forced" to make a decision about whether or not you will comply with your employer's flu shot requirements or risk losing your job.

    If there is anyone reading this thread who was tackled and vaccinated against their will, please let us know. In fact, read several of the posts above about legal issues--you may have a winnable lawsuit on your hands.
    chare, brillohead, and redhead_NURSE98! like this.
  9. 3
    my facilty implemented "mandatory flu shots" this year. in their policy it dictated if you failed to get the flu shot within the designated time (available over a two week period) you would be given 5 days off without pay. if after that time you had not got the flu shot your employment would be terminated.
    i am almost 53 years old have worked as a nurse for over 30 years in various settings (currently in cardiology) i have NEVER HAD THE FLU NOR THE FLU SHOT. i have worked at the same facility for 9 years. never been off sick with flu or colds. never been off sick during any winter time.
    i recieved the flu shot on monday 10/7 under duress. very angry that i was forced to take this **** into my body. today 10/11 i type this letter having had a visit to occ health and MD as my vaccinated arm is blown up hard, red and painful, my lymph nodes are all swollen and painful and i feel like crap. apparently though unless the reaction was respiratory distress or worse like dead!!! they dont care.
    i know my body, i know my immune system which is why i would never upset the equilibrium i have achieved over many years. until now...when i have been forced against my will to take a substance into my body. I am not alone in disagreement of this stallinist policy, many fellow hospital employees also feel their rights as individuals have been breached. this policy is under the guise of a "condition of employment" SUDDENLY. does this therefore give them the right to overturn employees rights??? this is a worrying trend of power. what will be mandated in coming years???
    Last but not least. in reality if employees make a stand...we will lose our jobs anyway for standing up for our rights to choose.
    your thoughts???????????????
    dcookRN, Nurserton, and barbyann like this.
  10. 0
    Quote from Laidback Al
    Lets get back on topic ---

    The other day I was in a health care facility. I saw three big burly guys in uniforms chase down and tackle a petite young nurse. She struggled to get away, but two of them held her down while the third reached into his pocket and pulled out a vial and syringe. He quickly and deftly administered a mandatory flu vaccination. They let her up and she was free to resume her nursely duties.

    Did this really happen? No, of course not. But by the content of some of the posts in this thread you would think it was an everyday occurrence.

    No HCW is "forced" to take a flu shot in our society. You are only "forced" to make a decision about whether or not you will comply with your employer's flu shot requirements or risk losing your job.

    If there is anyone reading this thread who was tackled and vaccinated against their will, please let us know. In fact, read several of the posts above about legal issues--you may have a winnable lawsuit on your hands.
    No, you'll just end up homeless and in the bread line.


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