Hospitals illegally firing nurses for refusing flu vaccines - page 3

by AQEELSMOM

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Apologies if this has been posted somewhere else. I'm using the mobile app and am still getting the hang of things. What are your thoughts? Hospitals illegally firing nurses for refusing flu vaccines in violation of state law,... Read More


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    Quote from Esme12
    I think this needs to be challenged in a court of law. You MUST take a shot, you must be thin, you may not smoke, we don't hire redheads....the list will grow. America is the land of the free and the brave....? IMHO.... It's a slippery slope we've begun to follow.
    Again, they're not holding anyone down and giving them the vaccination against their will -- they're just saying that, if you don't want to take the shot, you're welcome to seek employment elsewhere, somewhere that doesn't have that as a condition of employment. Aren't employers also "the free and the brave"? They have the right to set whatever workplace and employee conditions they see as necessary to promote good care and outcomes in their workplaces, as long as they're not violating state or Federal labor and EO laws. And employees have the right to work somewhere else if they don't like a particular facility/organization's requirements. "Freedom" cuts both ways.
    paradiseboundRN and anotherone like this.
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    I wish it was that simple elkpark. Your reasoning may be acceptable for new hires,but what about those that have been at a facility for many years? For these nurses it is not that simple.
    It is also questionably illegal for an employee to make a condition change at work that results in higher paid employees leaving and then replace them with lower paid workers. It is questionably illegal for any employee that mandates their employees to take a vaccination that is ineffective. It is questionably illegal for employees to make their workers wear an embarrassing surgical mask in a punitive fashion.
    This was a very bad move that hospitals have taken and I think they at some point they will realize this.
    etymed and lindarn like this.
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    Quote from MunoRN
    This isn't discrimination. Employers have the right to not employ those who refuse to meet the requirements of the job, which for Nurses includes complying with patient safety measures as defined by the facility and the organizations that guide them.

    If I apply at McDonalds, but say that I have an ethical objection to serving or even being in a building that serves meat, they aren't discriminating against me for not hiring me. I don't have the right get paid for something I refuse to do.

    Employers are required to make attempts to accommodate so long as there is not an undue burden on the employer, although they aren't required to move Nurses who refuse flu shots into non-clinical roles for 4-6 months out of the year.

    There are measures that should be implemented in combination with vaccines, but they aren't alternatives to vaccines.
    Everyone at my employment must get the vaccine/clinical or not. It is a condition of employment. There are many people lined up to fill their position. The thing about the good ole USA no one forces you to work somewhere.. it IS a matter of choice.I got sick after my vaccine...missed a day.. guess what it is still an occurrence...and they admitted that up to 50% of persons taking the vaccine they gave us are known to have some type of untoward effect. Their solution..they will not give us the same one next year per employee health(no duh....that would not be very effective since the viral strains will have mutated into something else by then).Most of the untoward effects have been severe itching right after the injection. What I love is how they don't wash their hands in between administration...and we pride ourselves on handwashing.. hire people to implement countless measures on handwashing but we as employees are not worthy of having someone wash their hands before and between(employees) and of course after giving immunizations?
    anotherone likes this.
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    Quote from olddragger
    I wish it was that simple elkpark. Your reasoning may be acceptable for new hires,but what about those that have been at a facility for many years? For these nurses it is not that simple.
    It is also questionably illegal for an employee to make a condition change at work that results in higher paid employees leaving and then replace them with lower paid workers. It is questionably illegal for any employee that mandates their employees to take a vaccination that is ineffective. It is questionably illegal for employees to make their workers wear an embarrassing surgical mask in a punitive fashion.
    This was a very bad move that hospitals have taken and I think they at some point they will realize this.
    My current employer doesn't require flu shots (although it very, very, very strongly encourages them ), but it did institute a new policy last year, for infection control purposes, that artificial nails and gel manicures are now forbidden, new hires and current employees alike, and continuing to violate the policy is a firing offense. Your fake nails had to be gone by some specific date, or you were out of a job, end of story. Is that also "questionably illegal"? I work for a large academic medical center that has a very competent and savvy legal department; I'm guessing they consulted with the legal department in the process of developing and instituting the policy. Can the current employees who really like their artificial nails take the medical center to court? Who says that the flu shot is "ineffective"? The CDC, NIH, ACIP, and HICPAC all recommend all healthcare workers be vaccinated every year, have for many years, and there is lots of research and data on the flu vaccine over the years. Obviously, that's no guarantee that the shot is effective for every individual (nor is any other vaccine), but a healthcare employer wanting all its employees vaccinated is not some wacky, out-of-left-field notion -- it's a pretty mainstream expectation. I'm guessing the hospitals are on pretty solid legal ground here.
    CareQueen, Rose_Queen, lindarn, and 1 other like this.
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    The job of a hospital or other healthcare facility is to provide an environment of healing for the patients. This includes protection against facility acquired illness. Influenze can be particularly harmful to patients in the hospital who already have compromised health. A person infected with influenza will spread it to others before he or she even knows she has it. That is one of the reasons why flu spreads so effectively.

    Flu vaccinations reduce the number of nurses who could spread the flu to patients. Requiring vaccination is a policy aimed at protecting patients from acquiring flu while in the hospital. Generally, there are provisions for those who cannot receive the vaccine. Since certain people, for medical reasons, cannot be vaccinated, those people must take other measures to reduce the risk of passing flu on to the patients. Requiring non-vaccinated nurses to wear masks during flu season is not a punitive measure but a preventative one.
    elkpark likes this.
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    I stopped reading once I saw the URL
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    I often wonder how many CDC employees are forced to take these same heavy metal containing shots? How many doctors are actually taking the vaccine? We all know that simple hand washing and covering the mouth can go along way when it comes to prevention. All kinds of people visit the sick in hospitals on a daily basis and its not mandatory for them to have a flu shot. So my point is viruses have so many avenues to enter in hospitals and clinical settings, not just through nurses who didn't recieved a flu shot. I agree with wearing the mask during flu season to protect the patients. Many who got the vaccination still got a ugly case of the flu, so whats the use!
    Last edit by sharee1027 on Jan 23, '13
    pmabraham likes this.
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    Quote from sharee1027
    I often wonder how many CDC employees are forced to take these same heavy metal containing shots? How many doctors are actually taking the vaccine? We all know that simple hand washing and covering the mouth can go along way when it comes to prevention. All kinds of people visit the sick in hospitals on a daily basis and its not mandatory for them to have a flu shot. So my point is viruses have so many avenues to enter in hospitals and clinical settings, not just through nurses who didn't recieved a flu shot. I agree with wearing the mask during flu season to protect the patients. Many who got the vaccination still got a ugly case of the flu, so whats the use!
    All the physicians on my service take the flu shot every year. Handwashing and covering the mouth are valuable infection control precautions -- so is vaccination. Hospitals have no ability to require that patients and visitors have had a flu shot before entering the hospital, but they can require employees to do so. How many is "many" ("who got the vaccination and still got a(n) ugly case of the flu"), what percentage of the total population who receiving the vaccination?? Yes, there are many, many ways that viruses and "bugs" enter hospitals and clinical settings, and that is exactly why healthcare employers are trying to minimize that in every way that they practically can. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and to make choices about your own healthcare -- and to work for an employer that doesn't require employees to take flu shots.
    tewdles and RNinC like this.
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    I'm waiting for the Jenny McCarthy crowd to chime in any second now, since we have already mentioned "heavy metals" and the old stand-by of "I got the flu from my (attenuated) flu vaccine."
    Aggie RN, scrubsandasmile, tewdles, and 2 others like this.
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    Why can't we put our patient's vulnerability above our rights, in this case over a stupid flu shot?
    paradiseboundRN likes this.


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