Re: Should the H1N1 Vaccine be mandatory for Healthcare Professionals?

Originally Posted by lamazeteacher

There must have been a problem getting HCWs to take the HepB series of vaccinations, as anyone who doesn't want to do that, signs a release saying they either had the series previously, or refuse to have it. The Employee Health Nurse can order (with consent of a new employee), a test for HbSAb. If the result is HbSAg +, he/she will have to work where the danger of exposing patients to their carrier state isn't a potential risk.

Since there's nowhere a HCW can work as such without exposing others to H1N1, when he/she's communicable (notice that I wrote "when", not "if"), she/he shouldn't work at all until the risk is over! If I for any reason couldn't take the vaccine without risking my life, I'd leave nursing until the risk of acquiring it is over; and I'd stay away from crowded indoor spaces.

Those who refuse to take the vaccine must be sure it could be lethal for them to take it. Therefore they should get as much information as they can, about the vaccine having been administered to many human volunteers during the research of it. I've read that online, and I'm convinced that a sufficient number of people have received the vaccine without ill effect, that I will take it. However, I believe HCWs have a right to refuse it, as mandatory administration of anything to employees is wrong - legally and morally. However employers can and should require anyone who hasn't taken the vaccine, to take an unpaid leave of absence.

The reason I feel so strongly about that, is because I'd hate to see nurses as "Typhoid Marys" exposing the public to a disease that has been shown to be lethal, when a vaccine is available to render them immune. If people with active Tb refuse (or are unreliable) to take their meds, the court can, and does restrict them to their homes, sending HH nurses in to give the meds by injection forceably, if need be. It would be a real pity if an insufficient number of HCWs made that necessary with nurses. However the length of time it takes the vaccine to render immunity, would make it unrealistic to do that. So the public will have to get the vaccine so that unvaccinated nurses won't spread H1N1 to them!

Now read about it, folks and believe what the CDC and WHO say about researching it sufficiently, before advising its use. It's shear paranoia to think that those agencies would intentionally mislead us and the public, for heaven's sake!!! I listened to a radio "talk show" this morning, which had a "neurosurgeon" speaking against vaccines in general, the one against H1N1 specifically, siting all the old and now unused substances that were in vaccines, such as formaldehyde. He talked about them having more than "a dose" of mercury in each dose of vaccine, while the program host gasped. Now is that idiotic? How much mercury is a dose, and why would it be considered that?

i understand your thinking but it's not the fact that the WHO or CDC would intentionally harm the public with a vaccination, but it has happened as a side effect. example, the public use to be given the oral vaccination for polio until it was discovered, after a period of time, that it was giving a number of people polio as a side effect. it was then changed to an im injection which is still used today... point proven, sometimes what seems safe and beneficial at first can be deemed quite the contrary after a period of time.

also... this was the first year i opted for the flu vaccination, and just as some people, it gave me the flu... who's to say that the same can't occur with the h1n1 vaccination... and even if it's one in a hundred... that one peron has to count for something... the numbers are people, not just statistics...

Re: Should the H1N1 Vaccine be mandatory for Healthcare Professionals?

As a nursing student, I was told to get the shot or drop out. I am not happy with that of course but what can I do? I have worked very hard and put a lot of time and money into my schooling. The CDC says "it is not mandatory", but they are not regulating this statement. Also they are not testing for the H1N1 anymore, does that mean they are also not keeping track of adverse effects? This may be just like the flu shots. The CDC list possible reactions, yet who really reports them if you say you have had a reaction? I had mentioned to a few nurses that I had developed flu symptoms from the vaccine,and all I got was "you can't get the flu from a shot." I am sure they did not report my adverse reactions.

Re: Should the H1N1 Vaccine be mandatory for Healthcare Professionals?

Originally Posted by stnursee

As a nursing student, I was told to get the shot or drop out. I am not happy with that of course but what can I do? I have worked very hard and put a lot of time and money into my schooling. The CDC says "it is not mandatory", but they are not regulating this statement. Also they are not testing for the H1N1 anymore, does that mean they are also not keeping track of adverse effects? This may be just like the flu shots. The CDC list possible reactions, yet who really reports them if you say you have had a reaction? I had mentioned to a few nurses that I had developed flu symptoms from the vaccine,and all I got was "you can't get the flu from a shot." I am sure they did not report my adverse reactions.

The calling of nurses to accept H1N1 vaccine so that their patients will not get that flu from their caregivers; and to prevent deaths of those susceptible to lethal repercussions of it, along with demonstrating trust in the regulating agencies of pharmaceuticals' statement that the vaccine is safe. It tests everyone's capacity to place their health in line with their dedication to their patients' wellbeing.

It is very important that we pass this test and realize our place with legions of other health care providers, willing to stand up for the mission of being part of the solution of illness.

Re: Should the H1N1 Vaccine be mandatory for Healthcare Professionals?

Originally Posted by MarynRN

also... this was the first year i opted for the flu vaccination, and just as some people, it gave me the flu... who's to say that the same can't occur with the h1n1 vaccination... and even if it's one in a hundred... that one peron has to count for something... the numbers are people, not just statistics...

Your flu shot didn't give you the flu, period. An inactivated virus (read: dead virus) doesn't proliferate a flu. You might have had a side effect of the other materials in the shot, but that IS NOT THE SAME as having the flu. I wonder how we as nurses can educate the public when obviously there are those teaching who don't understand how the things work??

You can't get H1N1 from having the vaccine for the same reasons. You might be sensitive to stuff in the shot (MIGHT be, but statistically there are WAY MORE people who claim this happened than actually happened, btw). But that doesn't mean you have contracted a virus. You didn't.

People also choose to forget that the incubation period of the seasonal flu can be from a couple of days to a week or so. Meaning that you were ALREADY ILL with the flu and therefore the symptoms conveniently showed just after your shot. Or, you had a cold (NOT the flu) and have blamed a vaccination that couldn't have given it to you for that illness. Kinda like saying red jelly beans must have given you the flu, because you never ate red jelly beans before, and the day after you ate red jelly beans--WHAM!--you have the flu. So it was the candy.

And btw, since you say statistics have to count for something, where does that "one in a hundred" people get the flu from the flu vaccine come from? Do you really think this?

Misinformation abounds.

Re: Should the H1N1 Vaccine be mandatory for Healthcare Professionals?

In response to the original question, I don't think it should be a mandatory vaccine simply because it is not something that the vast majority of us are at risk of death for. It's not a life-long illness (such as contracting Hepatitis might be). It's the flu, for goodness' sake, and if you choose to not have the shot and get yourself good and sick, it's YOU who gets to lose time from work by staying home. You penalize yourself, IMO.

I am in favor of voluntary vaccinations, primarily because I'm at risk of contracting the illness because of what I do, and I don't happen to like the idea of being sick myself or giving it to my family because I stuck my head in the sand and said "can't happen to me". But not in favor of making it a mandatory vaccination for reasons stated.

Re: Should the H1N1 Vaccine be mandatory for Healthcare Professionals?

Originally Posted by stnursee

The CDC list possible reactions, yet who really reports them if you say you have had a reaction? I had mentioned to a few nurses that I had developed flu symptoms from the vaccine,and all I got was "you can't get the flu from a shot." I am sure they did not report my adverse reactions.

THEY weren't supposed to report an adverse reaction, YOU WERE. In answer to your question "Who really reports them if you say you have had a reaction?" that would be YOU.

It's your responsiblity, not the nurses who you "mentioned it to". It doesn't become my business or responsibility to go to the place you got the shot and tell them YOU had issues with it, LOL....that's your job!

You might be a student, but you're also an adult, and this would be one of those times in which you can't just complain to someone else (who is not involved) and expect you're now done with the situation. In fact, at the time you got the shot, you were told that if you had any adverse reactions you were to report them to the office where you got the shot. So whose fault is it if numbers aren't accurate?

Re: Should the H1N1 Vaccine be mandatory for Healthcare Professionals?

Originally Posted by stnursee

As a nursing student, I was told to get the shot or drop out. I am not happy with that of course but what can I do? I have worked very hard and put a lot of time and money into my schooling. The CDC says "it is not mandatory", but they are not regulating this statement. Also they are not testing for the H1N1 anymore, does that mean they are also not keeping track of adverse effects? This may be just like the flu shots. The CDC list possible reactions, yet who really reports them if you say you have had a reaction? I had mentioned to a few nurses that I had developed flu symptoms from the vaccine,and all I got was "you can't get the flu from a shot." I am sure they did not report my adverse reactions.

You might be interested to know that Canadian research with 2,000 people in 4 different studies revealed that receiving seasonal flu vaccine prior to H1N1 vaccine, results in greater susceptibility to having H1N1 flu. So if you caught a flu after receiving seasonal flu vaccine...... as I did.......it most probably was H1N1 flu...... The Canadians have focused on giving H1N1 flu vaccine now, rather than seasonal flu vaccine, to avoid that because seasonal flu comes in late December, January, February, and March. American and UK microbiologists have said that the Canadian findings couldn't be replicated, but the seasonal flu vaccine hasn't been around long enough this year for any credible study to be done to invalidate the Canadian study here or elsewhere.

Ahhhh, I have so much medical history to share with you!

The problem with Dr. Sabin's oral polio vaccine discovered by him in the USA, is that it used the attenuated virus, which capriciously was "enlivened", horrifying those who were proponents of it. (Flumist for prevention of H1N1 used a similar process, without that drawback. Live polio virus mutated occasionally, and therefore was much too labile to use in a vaccine. Unfortunately that polio virus got all too live for a very small percent of those given it, and they got an "attenuated" version of the disease.

Worse yet, as those who have had polio and fortunately lived to find out, the debilitating effects of their disease returned to taunt them, with advancing age when they were around 50 years old. Lest that ever happen again, its use was discontinued, except in developing countries (? cheaper) and the original injected vaccine which contains dead virus is the only approved polio vaccine used in the USA. That had been discovered by Dr. Salk at Connaught Laboratories in Toronto, Canada and is the only vaccine for polio used in the USA today. Hence the use of the name Sabin for the oral vaccine, and Salk for the injectable one.

Those two American scientists were fiercely competitive, and brought their vaccines to other countries to do their research, for financial and political reasons. However neither scientist patented their discoveries. The Smithsonian has several interesting articles about that, which are available online.

I remember the closed public swimming pools of my childhood, in Canada and the sheer panic of parents for their children, who seemed more susceptible to polio (harks of H1N1, doesn't it?). I began my student nursing in 1957 in Canada, working with patients in "iron lungs" (a challenge if ever there was one, for patients and nurses) at an Infectious Diseases Hospital
in Montreal. Many Eskimo people who were extremely vulnerable to polio and Tb were transported by the government, down to Montreal for treatment there. That was an exercise in ethnic shock for both cultures!

The Eskimo toddlers weren't used to wearing any clothes inside their heated homes up north, and were "Houdinis" at escaping their restraints (without them, they were out of their cribs in a few seconds) during the night; and were to be found bouncing on the metal springs, having tossed the mattress, bedding and nightclothes on the floor and grinning widely at us as we came on duty in the morning. they adapted pretty well to being in a strange place, without anyone there that they knew. I wonder, though, what happened psychologically the rest of their lives.....

Canada reveled in the presence of Dr. Salk there, having sponsored his research leading to his discovery of the first vaccine that successfully combated polio. Early in the 1960s, I worked in pediatrics in the USA and gave the pink Sabin oral vaccine drops on white sugar cubes. Many years later, in 1987 while designing the home I built, the architect suffered the return with a vengeance of his painful childhood symptoms.

Re: Should the H1N1 Vaccine be mandatory for Healthcare Professionals?

No. It should not be mandatory.

As far as pple who are comparing this to other vaccinations, we are not talking about those vaccinations, we are talking about this brand-spankin-new H1N1 vaccine.

Re: Should the H1N1 Vaccine be mandatory for Healthcare Professionals?

I am giving the flu shots as a temporary member of the employee health team at a hospital. I respect anyone's decision to refuse the H1N1 injection and our hospital does not require it for the employees. I do wonder why employees accept the mandatory PPD inj. MMR, Varicella, etc, but not the flu shot(s). Perhaps people are scared of the H1N1 inj. because it is a "brand new shot." Many do not realize that the seasonal flu shot is brand new every year. Trust me, I do not want to be a lab rat myself. I refused the gardasil shot that my MD encouraged me to get when it was brand new. I did not want to be the one who the kinks were being worked out on, and my refusing gardasil did not affect anyone else. However, I do not want to put those around me at risk by not getting the H1N1 inj. and I believe that it is as safe as any other flu shot

Re: Should the H1N1 Vaccine be mandatory for Healthcare Professionals?

I do not believe that it is ethical to force any person to get any vaccine, as that would be against their free will. However, if your employment is "at-will" and your institution has a policy in place, then they could take action against those who do not adhere to the policy.