Re: Ethical Issue- Nurses not getting flu vaccine when they could!

Originally Posted by cpkrn2011

I was incredibly ill for 2 days after receiving the LAIV as was a friend of mine. We both had debilitating migraine headaches along with migraine complications like nausea and vomiting. You couldn't pay me to take the H1N1 LAIV again.

I see your argument in getting those refused vaccinations to those who want them, but no one should be forced to take it.

are either of you sensitive to MSG?

Re: Ethical Issue- Nurses not getting flu vaccine when they could!

Well I finally got my H1N1 LAIV today. So I will let you all know if any ill comes of it.

Originially it was only for the tier 1 employees but so few got it they finally told us we could get it ourselves last week. I'd been pretty much on my own so I had no chance to get it myself. I finally just had a nurse check off my form and got it.

Re: Ethical Issue- Nurses not getting flu vaccine when they could!

Originally Posted by morte

are either of you sensitive to MSG?

You ask the most interesting questions, morte.

Re: Ethical Issue- Nurses not getting flu vaccine when they could!

Indeed. I find it funny that people are complaining when there's a nurse coming around with either the mist or the shot, offering it to them; where I'm at there is no shot available yet. However, if I want to drive a couple of hours I can go stand in line and get one. It is entirely possible that I will be exposed to the real thing (probably have been) before the injectable becomes available my way.

And I would consider the flumist, except that I'm asthmatic so umm, no.

Re: Ethical Issue- Nurses not getting flu vaccine when they could!

Originally Posted by Aaron86

Haha, you'd think that would make it better for those healthcare workers who are afraid of needles!

If I could pick between the two, all things being equal, I would probably choose the h1n1 shot too. It so much manlier to bear the arm and take it.
But if my getting the shot means a pregnant woman and her child go unprotected? I'll take the runny nose for a few days.


Also, kind of off topic here but going back on your previous post: those diseases are rare *because* of the vaccine. Untill it becomes erradicated in the wild (small pox) the risks of the vaccine still must be compared to the risks of the disease.
DTaP or MMR and polio may seem like rare and exotic diseases in the U.S. but they are endemic in many countries that tourists visit and people immigrate from.

It may be hard to think of it like this, but less than a death in a million due to a vaccine reaction is immensely preferable to thousands of deaths per million from the disease.
I make sure to go through any contraindications and ask for questions before administering vaccine even to someone who absolutely wants it. Because you know what? that 1 death in a million might be better than thousands but you still try to rule it out at every possible chance.

Actually....these diseases were on the decline just before vaccines were introduced. So it seemed like vaccines did the world good. I ran across a chart awhile ago and it showed the rate of diseases and the decline, then vaccines were introduced. And depending on what side of the fence you're on...you'd either think the decline was natural (considering the rates were declining anyway) or the decline continued because of the vaccines. Just depends on how you look at it. I understand why some people give every vaccine under the sun because I've looked into these diseases and know what they can cause. But I also know, there's a slim chance my kids (or myself) will ever come in contact with polio or measles. I also know that vaccines can kill...rare but it does happen. I feel more comfortable taking the extremely rare chance of my kid coming in contact with polio, then purposely giving the vaccine and something happening....all for a disease that rare where it does exist.

Re: Ethical Issue- Nurses not getting flu vaccine when they could!

Originally Posted by Aaron86

I know that we deal with people and not just facts and figures.

This is mainly why I was driven to even post (which won't be happening again soon)

Any seasonal flu clinic I go to I get hundreds of questions from anxious parents asking when we will give out the H1N1 vaccine.

What do I tell them? We do, in fact, have over 6,000 doses of H1N1 sitting in a fridge reserved for healthcare providers who are holding out. I'm sorry mam, your kid might end up in a PICU because resources are being tied up like this rather than getting to the people most at risk.

I put myself in her shoes and see how rediculous it is that I am twiddling my thumbs trying to get healthcare workers vaccinated with the alloted vaccine. Meanwhile the public is driving from doctor's office to doctor's office trying to find it.

Let me put it this way:

Someone is at a pizza party.
There are 10 pizzas with meat, and 1 that is cheese only.
Of course, this is a stupid way to hold a pizza party because there are a lot of vegetarians there.
This person knows damn well there are vegetarians at the party but they insist on holding off on the meat and eating the whole cheese pizza themselves.
Because, you know, that meat has more cholesterol in it.

Why is it the healthcare workers fault that the vaccine manufactors haven't made enough vaccines? The CDC and all these other halfwits have scared anybody that watches TV or reads the paper into thinking that it's a pandemic....so hello?....if you're going to put a disease out in the environment (this is my belief) and cause hysteria, then make enough vaccines! It's not the fault a healthcare workers because they don't want to put a live virus into their body (yeah, that sounds smart and promising).

Re: Ethical Issue- Nurses not getting flu vaccine when they could!

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm#risk

http://www.who.int/features/factfile.../en/index.html


I think those are two reputable sources on the subject of vaccination in general.
And that is all the more I will say on that. It is not my intention to argue that everyone needs to be vaccinated. If someone objects to receiving the vaccine, it is their decision about their body and I have to respect that – any thing related to that deserves its own thread.
-----

My issue was with healthcare workers eligible for a more the widely available vaccine (which is not licensed for use on those who have the highest risk for death and hospitalization) insisting on waiting for the trivalent inactivated version.

These are healthy people at low risk for h1n1 complications taking the inactivated instead while the people that really need the inactivated can't get it.
Meanwhile the LAIV allocated to those healthy healthcare workers under the age of 50 is hoarded in a hospital doing no good at all.

If the trivalent inactivated h1n1 vaccine was as widely available as everyone was lead to believe this wouldn't be an issue. But it is an issue.

The ethics in question here isn't the decision to vaccinate or not to vaccinate.
It is unnecessary consuming limited resources that are badly needed by those people most likely to *die* if they get the flu.

Re: Ethical Issue- Nurses not getting flu vaccine when they could!

Originally Posted by Aaron86

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm#risk

http://www.who.int/features/factfile.../en/index.html


I think those are two reputable sources on the subject of vaccination in general.
And that is all the more I will say on that. It is not my intention to argue that everyone needs to be vaccinated. If someone objects to receiving the vaccine, it is their decision about their body and I have to respect that – any thing related to that deserves its own thread.
-----

My issue was with healthcare workers eligible for a more the widely available vaccine (which is not licensed for use on those who have the highest risk for death and hospitalization) insisting on waiting for the trivalent inactivated version.

These are healthy people at low risk for h1n1 complications taking the inactivated instead while the people that really need the inactivated can't get it.
Meanwhile the LAIV allocated to those healthy healthcare workers under the age of 50 is hoarded in a hospital doing no good at all.

If the trivalent inactivated h1n1 vaccine was as widely available as everyone was lead to believe this wouldn't be an issue. But it is an issue.

The ethics in question here isn't the decision to vaccinate or not to vaccinate.
It is unnecessary consuming limited resources that are badly needed by those people most likely to *die* if they get the flu.

Thank you for posting the link to prove my point, lol. BTW, do you really think a multibillion dollar business is going to come down on what they make and promote...vaccines? LOL Ok, now I don't feel like discussing this anymore. No offense, but you live in the typical bubble of thinking vaccines save lives and they're 100% safe. Why don't you do some research on the ingredients and the harmful effects of these vaccines and people who have had to live with it?
~~~~~
Ok....if you say you respect peoples decisions, then why care if someone would rather get the vaccine rather then the nasal spray? They have every right to decide what does and doesn't go in their body. If that's your main concern....then it is a valid issue. Just like we all choose what to eat and what not to, why should vaccine be any different? You THINK these resources are badly needed because of TV....it'll brainwash anyone. No offense really....this hysteria is just annoying. Like I said before....get on the vaccine makers, no your fellow healthcare workers.

Re: Ethical Issue- Nurses not getting flu vaccine when they could!

Sorry Aaron, I sounded like a b**** in my last post. Lets stop this conversation before it gets out of hand.

Re: Ethical Issue- Nurses not getting flu vaccine when they could!

The hospital where I work did not offer the mist to the employees. Anyone admitted to the hospital has a compromised immune system. Our hospital chose to only administer the injectible virus for those reasons.

As for the original poster....the great thing about America is that we are able to choose.