ITT Tech's New Program???

PDXPonySN913 · Jun 10, 2011

Well MicheleMA,

I can't give info on instructors or ITT clinicals, yet. However, I've been through orientation at ITT and orientation in an OCNE program. I can tell you that in orientation, the ITT program went over all of the ways they would be available to help the students learn and succeed. THey also walked us around the school, to personally introduce students to all of the people, in all of the different departments that students could go to for assistance.

My experience with the OCNE college program orientation I attended, was most memorable to me for the nurse educators' statements regarding how phsychological councelors were mandatory, because all students would be taken apart mentally. Phsychological councelors would be necesssary to put us back together again. ...I don't really think the OCNE educators cared much about the putting you back together again part....but they really did seem to be into the taking apart buisness...in my opinion.

I have not made it to clinicals yet at ITT, because ITT students don't go to clinicals until they've had at least three terms of training and education. However, OCNE, is very proud about how they throw their students alone onto the floor in clinicals, first term. Don't look for much faculty support in that first term. Nursing is not for the weak. The term I attended, one of our skills labs was scheduled for the Monday following the last clincal date for all students. All of the students in that cohort, performed that skill before it was signed off in their pass books.

I understand that nurse educators in Oregon are no longer accountable for nursing student errors on the floor - My clinical leader put it this way; "It's not my license, if you mess-up! It's your licenses! So you'd all better say something if you don't know how to do something." (...if you don't have some kind of healthcare safety training, you may not know what questions to be asking - especially in your first term of nursing school....) My clinical leader didn't seem to care so much about patient safety, as she did about not being accountable for her students' performances.

If you don't at least have a CNA, be very careful in OCNE clincals, because the prep for clinicals is extremely minimal, and may not come until AFTER the clinicals you perform your skills in - which can get YOU in a lot of hot water. All those people complaining about how boring it is to repeat CNA safety stuff - I would have given anything to be them.

PDXPonySN913 · Jun 12, 2011

MadeinOregon...

OHSU would not be interested in hiring ITT students. OHSU only hires ONCE students - Supposedly, this is the main incentive for all of the community colleges in Oregon - as well Clark Community in Washington State -to join OCNE. If OHSU were hiring any non-OCNE graduates... that would be a very interesting thing to learn....very interesting...

I've heard from OCNE Students that very few OCNE students articulate into OHSU's BSN program. I heard less than 1%...but that is so low....I question the number, but not that the actual number is very low. Could this be because OCNE students aren't able to compete with the required grades, or is there another reason? Incoming students should be from roughly the same pool of students as the rest of Oregon. so OCNE program average GPA's should be comparably as high. If they are not, it would be interesting to hear why they are different.

I don't know what the percentage is of OCNE graduates being hired by OHSU. I'd guess it is also low. If community colleges are joining OCNE, in the interest of landing jobs for their graduates, surely someone would have chrunched these numbers? There have to be far more OCNE graduates than OHSU can take in. Although, this may be good news, PCC seems to be shrinking their program from the previous 100 seats, to 80 or less on entry. This should lend itself to fewer graduates coming out of PCC.

Perhaps the decrease in PCC graduates will be helpful for OCNE students competing for the few open slots at OHSU? OHSU would clearly be hiring even fewer OCNE students, if they were hiring graduates outside the OCNE system. If OHSU is hiring graduates outside of OCNE, this would be very interesting information because it would mean that OCNE students must compete more for the decreased open slots.

OCNE courses don't transfer to other nursing programs outside of OCNE, either. Once you start an OCNE program, you are locked into OCNE. The majority of your coures are lost if you don't graduate from OCNE. OCNE courses as especially taylored to OCNE, and most, cannot transfer to colleges or Universities outside of OCNE. OCNE, is "special".

ITT is not OCNE, and this is the appeal of ITT. No matter where an RN receives a degree from, chances are some classes will be too old, or otherwise will need to be retaken. Many programs may even require additional course work regardless of where you've been to school. ITT grads take the same national exam as everyone else, and they have to meet the same requirements of regulators. OHSU, while very respected, is not the only provider of BSN's in the nation.

If OHSU and only OHSU will do for your future employer and educator, OCNE is for you and you should avoid all non-OCNE programs...but it may be a very good idea to find out what your statistical chances are of 1) Getting through the program and finishing with competitive grades needed to enter a BSN program, and 2) Actually getting a seat in OHSU's program as an OCNE graduate, and 3) Acutally being hired by OHSU, as an OCNE graduate.

If you are looking at going into a BSN, your grades will matter - even at OHSU and as an OCNE student. Most people going into OCNE programs are capable of A level work. What is the average grade coming out of OCNE programs?

Could lower grades be the reason so many OCNE graduates don't articulate into OHSU's BSN program? It would be interesting to know. If so, I doubt other BSN programs will be interested in giving extra points for lower academic performances compared to other programs - just because you graduated from a "special" OCNE program.

PDXPonySN913 · Jun 12, 2011

LuvMyBugs...

Good for you for sticking it out with the application process. I feel your frustration at not finding a job. I hope you get a job soon. Don't give up.

I've a 94 percentile on my MAT, and a prior BA. I could go into an accelerated MSN program - If I wait a year or two, retake a class, and then go to school for four or more years. I'm tired of waiting, also.

I'd never go into an OCNE nursing program. I've seen what OCNE has to offer. For some, I guess it's just the only choice. O.K. They have their OCNE.

I am so happy that ITT has a nursing program. I don't want to wait through another year or more of applications. I have already taken more than two years of pre-requisites and waited two plus additional years. I want to be a nurse.

ITT represents more choices for Oregon nursing students. ITT is another option in a region where options have become limited by OHSU's OCNE. Having quality and variety in Oregon nursing programs is the ideal. ITT is a good thing for nursing. It is good for Oregon. ITT is good for me.

I'll do my best to leave Oregon and OHSU, to all of the other grads if that is the source of hostility toward ITT. Just because people go to ITT, does not mean they are not "keeping their eyes open". People going into OCNE are taking chances. Most likely, much greater chances than they think. OCNE makes absolutely no guarantees to nursing students, but the sell is that OCNE does.

So far, most of the negative information posted about ITT has been incorrect... ITT is nationally accredited. ITT graduates take the same national exam as everyone else and they earn their RN that same way as everyone else does. Two local Universities will look at ITT graduates. Even without having graduated a first cohort, ITT students are already getting job offers.

It is good to have different nursing progams available to people with different needs and similar goals. It would be better to hire people with different backgrounds, and different educations, so that problem solving in the nursing environment can be approached from different angles - in cooperation and in collaboration. OHSU does not want to hire students from outside OCNE. O.K.

Bringing in graduates from different nursing schools, brings more variety of thought processes and phylosophies. In a cooperative environment, this is the better option. If this is not OHSU's phylosophy - OHSU and OCNE, are not for me. I'd like to have other choices.

I've always hoped to work or attend classes with people who are nothing like me - so I can learn and grow the most from them. An employer who hires from a variety of schools and backgrounds, will benefit with more positive synergy, and greater productivity potential. Variety amoung employees brings new, and innovative ideas. I want to work for an employer who facilitates leadership, synergy, innovation, team work, and collaboration. This will not be as prevelant, where everyone went through the same system, and belongs to the same "good ol' boys club".

For those who are not interested in nursing because they want to join some special elite club, ITT represents an alternate choice where students serious enough about nursing, can take a less traveled but more difficult path toward becoming a real nurse.

kamaboko · Jun 12, 2011

I'll toss my two bones into this conversation. As I've mentioned a number of times, a good friend of mine recruits in the med industry; primarily MD's and NP's. He too, is a former NP. His advice to me was to stay away from 'for profit' schools such as ITT. First, they're too dang expensive, and second, it's all about pedigree and ITT doesn't have it. If you're going to drop a load of cash, do it at OHSU. Unfortunately, the med profession is a 'club', so one has to make sure they go to the 'right' schools.

jimithing112 · Jun 12, 2011

In addition, OCNE students do not have to "compete" for entry to OHSU's BSN program. OCNE *is* part of the BSN program, and those who opt to continue to OHSU for their BSN don't have to apply or compete for spots. It's not another application process; it's a coadmission to OHSU. There's so much in all of your posts that I disagree with, and I wonder where you're getting your information. Maybe www.ocne.org will have some of the facts about which you're making conjectures.

PDXPonySN913 · Jun 12, 2011

Kamaboko and Jimithing112;

I'm a nobody. I'm also, clearly not very smart. My words are not worthy of your attention. I'd go with experts and trusted friends over the advice of a not-very-smart-nobody. Join that "club". That would be wisest. Decisions made upon sound beliefs and the best available information from trusted sources, are usually sound. I hope you find the "club" is all you expect it to be, and even better. Be happy.

OCNE is not my cup of tea. This leaves more "tea," for OCNE enthusiasts to drink. Your gain, my loss....don't you think? I'm glad to have an alternate choice.

I didn't see any of this data on the OCNE link posted above. Wow! You both sound like you are so well connected. I'm not as smart as you, so maybe you could be kind, and help a dummy out...? Especially since I will end up way more in debt than you, with a useless RN, and no job...if I'm lucky.

I'd sure like to know any of the following data. Maybe there is a direct link to a webpage, or something? I did not find it. ...or maybe someone with access to direct data in a program has might volunteer some of this data?

1) What's the overall graduation rate for OCNE programs?

(starting cohort #/graduating cohort #)

2) What overall percentage of OCNE students, finish the program within the length of the program?

(I.E.: Given a two year program, ___ % graduate within two years.)

3) Is there a required GPA to articulate into OHSU's BSN program? If so, what is the eligible GPA for articulating into OHSU's BSN?

4) What overall percentage of OCNE students have an eligible GPA to articulate into OHSU's BSN?

5) What percentage of overall OCNE graduates articulate into OHSU's BSN program?

6) Not counting OHSU graduates, what percentage of overall OCNE graduates are hired by OHSU - as graduate nurses?...for each year of the program?

7) Do OHSU student nurses and graduates have a disproportionately higher make-up of OCNE nurses employed by OHSU? ... and of seats in OHSU's nursing programs? What are the ratios?

8) Is OHSU's BSN program limitless to all OCNE students? What does it take, to be eligible to articulate into an OHSU BSN seat? (Can all OCNE students who want a seat, and meet a minimum eligibity, get a seat?)

9) What percentage of OCNE students, get a BSN seat at the point of articulation?

10) Counting the maximum seats available for each program, how many OCNE seats are available - throughout all of the OCNE system? How many OCNE seats are full, and actively in classes and eligible for clinicals - at any reasonably near point in time? (seats available/seats active - using the same point in time.)

If OCNE is tracking its own performance, they should know at least some of these numbers, right? If OCNE doesn't know any of these numbers.....?

kamaboko · Jun 13, 2011

Care1,

Your self-deprecating reply struck me as childish. As for all of those 'important' questions you posted, they struck me as pointless. Why is it important for me to know how long it takes another student to complete a program? Why is it important for me to know the graduation rate? I'm concerned with 'my' performance, not another student. Half the students in my first A&P class took it for a second time to get an 'A'. Was that to mean it was going to take me two attempts? No.

I'm sure there's plenty of tea at ITT for you to drink. I suggest you savor it at the price it's offered. $30K+ for an associates degree? Sheer insanity.

Editorial Team / Admin · Jun 13, 2011

this is a gentle reminder to address posts to the issue or subject at hand and refrain from personal insults or attacks, per the terms of service.

thank you.

---- dianah

PDXPonySN913 · Jun 13, 2011

kamaboko -

Your post was very mean spirited.

I'm sorry if I did anything to offend you. My previous post was more sincere than you might think. I may be the most unimportant person I have ever known.

You really do sound like you are well connected, ...and much smarter than me. I believe you will go much farther in life than me. Sincerely. Those stats are important - to me. I couldn't find them, and I've been looking for months... see how "not smart" I am?

If the stats were available, I believe they'd give an important description of the program. Nursing school, is nothing like pre-req's. I know from experience. Things just look a whole lot different, from the inside.

Your posts are really mean spirited, kamaboko.

jimithing112 · Jun 13, 2011

....... :uhoh3:

airbender · Jun 14, 2011

I try not to get too controversial on this message board. But really, I do think nursing school should be a little exclusive. I do think potential nursing students should excel academically, and have life and work experience that support critical and independent thinking, scientific inquiry, and common sense. I want nurses who care for my family to be sharp, well-educated, and resourceful. I don't care where they went to school one bit. But I do think a rigorous application process gives Portland area medical facilities some great nurses, as well as a ton of new grads who can't find work.

I'm sure ITT can turn out fine nurses, but it comes at great expense to the student. I think that's what Kamaboko was saying; with so many schools, a new tech school that lacks accreditation by the state is not going to be as competitive. That is just information sharing to me, and not meant as an attack on anyone's decision. For me, that is an important piece of information as I decide where to spend my hard-earned money and precious time.

I'm not sure the what the criticism of the OCNE programs are; I certainly don't think they're the end-all, be-all for nursing programs. You can find out pass rates on the Oregon Board of Nursing website. It looks like they're above the required standard to stay NLN-accredited.

Also, an interesting study was published last year, about prospective nursing students in Oregon, and the exaggerated competitive claims. Check it out: http://www.ocnnursingdiversity.org/documents/NSAD2010Report.pdf

Good luck to everyone in their nursing career. I think there is room enough for everyone. As a future OHSU student, I've read (and heard) a number of people in this forum, as well as in my classes, saying that attending OHSU was a waste of money when you could attend a community college and bridge in. Honestly, I could care less what others think of my academic and professional choices - it's a liberating feeling!

jimithing112 · Jun 14, 2011

Thank you, airbender, for bringing a balanced and respectful response. I planned to, but didn't have the energy. :lol2: Good luck at OHSU!