RNFA 'S - page 2

Are there any RNFA's that are MAD or getting Mad about the Surgical scrub first assisting? Maybe we should be! #1 This is a job we have worked very hard for, we went to school to get a degree and... Read More

  1. by   shodobe
    tbannister, I hope you weren't referring to me? I know what it takes to be an RNFA. What I am talking about is what goes on in the OR not outside. How long have you been doing this? I have been doing this for 27 years and have no problem assisting surgeons on ANY case. Like I posted I do everything except suture. I know you as a RNFA do more outside the OR if you work for a surgeon, good for you. Mike
  2. by   Alnamvet
    Surgeon gives me a choice: do you want a RNFA, a Surgical PA, or a Masters prepared Certified Surgical Assistant from a 2 year medical school program where the graduates receive over 2000 hours in the OR in their 2nd year as his First Assist? GIVE ME THE CSA!!! An alternative would be a Special Forces Medic with additional training as a Surgical Assistant. RNFA...what is that? a few years scrubbing and circ'n, membership in AORN, cert in CNOR, and a week in Lake Taos skiing and taking a few hours in knot tying.
  3. by   shodobe
    You'll have to enlighten us on the CSA thing. So far I haven't heard of ANY surgeon inmy area, SoCal that uses them, if they exist. All of the heart guys use PAs or RNFAs so I can't see where a CSA would be of much use around here. Maybe back where you live, I have heard the East is so much more advanced in nursing, LOL. As for the special forces thing, yes they do have much more experience in the surgical field, but it doesn't count for much when applying for nursing programs, maybe for PA school or whatever. Also what do you do, RN, PA or CSA? just curious. I know you will bring out a few on your demeaning of RNFAs. Good luck, Mike
  4. by   Alnamvet
    Originally posted by shodobe
    You'll have to enlighten us on the CSA thing. So far I haven't heard of ANY surgeon inmy area, SoCal that uses them, if they exist. All of the heart guys use PAs or RNFAs so I can't see where a CSA would be of much use around here. Maybe back where you live, I have heard the East is so much more advanced in nursing, LOL. As for the special forces thing, yes they do have much more experience in the surgical field, but it doesn't count for much when applying for nursing programs, maybe for PA school or whatever. Also what do you do, RN, PA or CSA? just curious. I know you will bring out a few on your demeaning of RNFAs. Good luck, Mike
    What am I? An RN, ARNP, Emergency. BTW, no demeaning of RNFA's...just the simple facts presented. If you need to know more about surgical assistants, go to Eastern Virginia Medical School web page. Buenas suertes to you too muchacho
    Last edit by Alnamvet on Jan 23, '04
  5. by   Alnamvet
    Originally posted by ORJUNKIE
    I think that there has not been a good job in the education of what CRNFA really means. This is a big bone of contention where I work because a few people attended a TWO week course (and they really think they are qualified to be consultant assistants like an MD has been - get real!)and now think they should only have to scrub in as an assistant. Most doctors don't end up letting them do anything more than what we've always done as second scrubs! Why should we support an already burdened healthcare cost system and charge patients for services that truly aren't necessary? Come on folks, be honest with yourselves! This is another example of delusions of grandeur. The same people who insisted twenty years ago that you wouldn't be a good nurse unless you had a BSN or MSN, thus causing the demise of many a good ADN and Diploma program, are probably the same people who made up this nonsense about attending a two week course and then considering yourself qualified to work as a CRNFA! All of us who have worked with new BSN/MSN grads know that the ADN and Diploma nurses are generally better able to care for patients straight out of school.
    Couldn't have said it better
  6. by   callbabe
    Quote from CATHY RNFA
    Are there any RNFA's that are MAD or getting Mad about the Surgical scrub first assisting?
    Maybe we should be! #1 This is a job we have worked very hard for, we went to school to get a degree and had to pass the Boards. Then we had to aquire a place in the O.R. and work many hard hours to be experienced in our jobs. We had to prove ourselves to the surgeons and our peers.We then moved on to being a CNOR again to prove our knowledge and ability. Then we chose to go to an RNFA program for which we put in 120 documented and audited hours with case studies etc..
    To become a CRNFA we had to aquire 2000 documented hours buy books and take a test that cost about $500 all of this and now our jobs and licences are on the line for ST's that go to school for 9mo have no licenece and then proceed to skip 10 steps and want to be First Assistants I say it's time to get MAD and do something. I don't plan on watching someone take something I worked very hard for. If the techs want to First Assist then they can go to school and get the proper licence and degree and I will support them Does anyone have an opinion on this or Do I stand alone??
    :angryfire I get mad to. I have been working for 30 years. I am a RNFA also. We have a gen surg
    group that employees tech. They pay them a salary. The office bills for their services though. I think in MO they can only bill 11%. I can bill 20%. PA's can bill 30%. I have been doing quite well these days. I work partime,privately for a GYN oncologist. The techs employed at the hosp where I work do not have privileges to do much, and no wound closures either. I don't blame you for being mad. You need to work at the legislative level also. I am active in AORN,MONA, Marnfa. They are lobbing to try to help us get title protection as well as medicare reimbursement. I am glad to hear from you. Kathy
  7. by   carcha
    I'm so glad our system is so simple. We only employ RN's who scrub, circulate, recover out of hours. Our surgeons use medical personnel to assist them for everything. We all have our roles, dont stray outside them, and all get along pretty well here. If you'll forgive me for saying so and I dont mean to be insulting, whats the big deal about assisting the surgeon anyway?. I would have thought that the role of and RN in an operating room is full of challanges. Why drift into an area where your dependent on the policy of the room, the people, the politics, and the surgeon to try and prove your worth.I have never understood this.
  8. by   orrnlori
    Whoa - there's just attitude all over the place in this thread. Want to know why nurses will never ever band together to advance our profession? Because we're too busy back biting each other over who has what certification and who can do what better! Personally I don't care if you are a CNFA or a damn good scrub nurse, I'd just perfer you be a NURSE in the OR rather than an unlicensed scrub tech working under MY license.
  9. by   TMnurse
    Yes, I agree the is too much back stabbing. As for trouble with techs that do too much. If you are an RNFA, all those cases should be yours don't let a a CST steal your "Thunder". I am not an RNFA but I am aware that in many states you can bill for your services. If this is true (even if it is only minimal $$$) document it. Document what you can do by law (what that means in lay talk) and that since your have multiple licenses that you are more qualified . Send it off not only to you OR manager/director but also to higher ranking officals (VP or anyone who watches the numbers). Your OR manager might not see it but people who handle the numbers OR MOST IMPORTANTLY UNDERSTAND Liability should. In a court of law, I think it looks better if a surgeon and RNFA performed the case than a surgeon and someone who took a 12 week course. Best of luck
  10. by   carcha
    Let me tell you what the trouble really is here, people who dont bother reading the threads properly. I specifically stated that I dident want to insult anyone but simply wanted to understand something. So lighten up about the backstabbing, its getting old already!. If there is someone there who actually is interested in telling me why an OR RN who has a specific roll in patient care then leaves that role to be at the mercy of whatever system he or she might enter as a surgeons assistent, where several of you have mentioned how vunerable you are, then I would really be interested to know!
  11. by   orrnlori
    Quote from carcha
    Let me tell you what the trouble really is here, people who dont bother reading the threads properly. I specifically stated that I dident want to insult anyone but simply wanted to understand something. So lighten up about the backstabbing, its getting old already!. If there is someone there who actually is interested in telling me why an OR RN who has a specific roll in patient care then leaves that role to be at the mercy of whatever system he or she might enter as a surgeons assistent, where several of you have mentioned how vunerable you are, then I would really be interested to know!
    I wasn't refering to your post, but some of the others.

    I agree, they aren't utilized here as I don't think they are reimbursed by insurance in our area of the country. I know my insurance will not pay for a PA to assist either so probably others wouldnt' as well. I would not leave the security of the hospital pay to venture into something that isn't used. But whatever, I would personally rather see hospitals and doctors use a trained nurse, whether a CNFA or RN to assist, than a scrub tech, period.

    One of the problems in nursing is that there is a huge list of certifications that can be obtained with lots of extra money and time if the nurse wants to do it, but the institutions don't pay (or don't pay much) for those certifications in terms of hourly rate. We are just whistling in the wind most of the time. While these different certifications may indeed indicate higher learning and training, the paying institution doesn't value them, so the only people who end up getting hurt are the ones who invested the time and money. Take CNOR, costs what, 400 bucks to obtain it, 60 hours of CEU's every 2 years and of course, it looks good behind your name, but it pays nothing extra, no compensation or recognition for it from the employer, at least not in my city, so other than self satisfaction, what good does it do the person who put up the money and time. I don't know a single doctor who cares one way or the other.
  12. by   carcha
    as an or rn who has never worked with first assistants I am interested in knowing who employs you, in the or who is "in charge" the head nurse or the FA, and can you still act as both scrub and fa on the same case if need be?
  13. by   callbabe
    Quote from orrnlori
    Whoa - there's just attitude all over the place in this thread. Want to know why nurses will never ever band together to advance our profession? Because we're too busy back biting each other over who has what certification and who can do what better! Personally I don't care if you are a CNFA or a damn good scrub nurse, I'd just perfer you be a NURSE in the OR rather than an unlicensed scrub tech working under MY license.
    Hey guys and gals I just visited this site to try to get some info. Haven't gotten it yet. Then I saw the RNFA forum and thought I would just visit for awhile.
    All I really wanted was to ask a question. Does anyone take OR call on weekends, if so how many hours are you responsible for. We have to take 48 hours. I personally feel like that is to much. I have worked 25 of those in a row and I just wondered if it was legal, or if it was standard operating procedure elsewhere. I have e-mailed AORN with no response,even the Dept. of Labor no luck yet. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Back to the other issue, I love OR nursing. I also love first assisting. If you have not been there then you would not understand, so please do not knock a nurse that has paid her dues,worked her buns off to get where she is at. I'm happy hope you are to.

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