Woman refuses CS, charged with murder - page 5

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (03-11) 13:49 PST SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- A pregnant woman who allegedly ignored medical warnings to have a... Read More

  1. by   ktwlpn
    http://dsdsdemo2.ap.org/aponline/us_...s_3568026.html Here is another stiory that sheds some insight into this woman'a psych history-and she certainly looks like she has decompensated...
  2. by   CoffeeRTC
    I'm not an OB nurse, but have read a few of the posts... Question..could they have just tried to induce her for a vaginal birth and try to deliver the babies that way? I know C section would be safest, but wonder if this could have been an option??
  3. by   Jolie
    Quote from michelle126
    I'm not an OB nurse, but have read a few of the posts... Question..could they have just tried to induce her for a vaginal birth and try to deliver the babies that way? I know C section would be safest, but wonder if this could have been an option??

    That thought has crossed my mind too, but it is hard to say with the scanty details we have available.

    The reason I've seen given for the recommendation of a C-section is that the twins' heart rates were slowing. No further details as to whether mom had a NST, a CST, or a biophysical profile, any of which would be helpful in determining the babies' ability to tolerate labor. I've also not heard that mom had any clear-cut contra-indications to labor such as a placenta previa or partial abruption. Another consideration would be the position of the twins. If they were vertex-vertex, perhaps an induction could have been attempted, but breech or transverse presentations would have made this too risky.

    For argument's sake, let's say that the twins were vertex-vertex, and mom had no clear-cut contra-indications to labor. Because of the slowing heart rates, a C-section was advised, but mom refused. Whileinduction is not the optimal standard of care here, it is probably preferable to continuing the pregnancy indefinitely. If you were the OB, would you offer the option of an induction to this patient?

    I would not, and this is my reason: It is simply too risky legally for me. This mom has clearly stated that she will not, in any circumstances, submit to a C-section. So, if the induction goes badly, I would have no means of saving the babies, and hence have no legal protection. And I'm quite sure that this patient would sue me for all I'm worth if something does go wrong.

    I have, on occasion, seen OBs offer a trial of labor to patients in whom it was not really indicated, because the patients had a strong desire to attempt a vaginal birth, and a clear willingness to RUN to the OR should anything go awry. This has happened when the patients had good, long-standing, and trusting relationships with their doctors, which was clearly not the case with this patient.

    Sadly, it was not in the OBs best interests here to deviate from the accepted standard of care because of the potential that they could lose their practices for the sake of a non-compliant mom.
  4. by   jnrsmommy
    This is an all around sad situation. What truly scares me is the steps that the healthcare system can now take for or against you. Here's my point, does anyone remember the case several months ago (I believe it may have been on the east coast, but I could be wrong) about the lady who was told at two different hospitals that she needed to have a c-section. I'm not clear on all the details, but what was said was that she was scared of them because she had known someone that had died either during or as a result. She left both hospitals AMA, and proceeded to a third. During this time, the second hospital was able to obtain a court order for her to have the c-section. They weren't able to serve her due to her going to the third hospital, where she delivered a healthy baby vaginally.

    I understand that in this day and age fetuses have rights, but where does theirs begin and ours end?
  5. by   upallnight
    Whatever her reasons for refusing a c-section should have been addressed by the medical staff. If just for vanity, then teaching should have been done. If she is mentally ill, then she should have been seen by a psych doctor and green warrented into a mental health facility. If this woman is mentally ill, then only she knows what was going on inside her head. She had probably convinced herself of all kinds of crazy things! She could not think rationally. I choose to believe she is mentally ill because I am appalled that someone would risk a dead baby to avoid a scar. I have taken care of all kinds of weird women in labor who have all kinds of crazy things written on their birth plans. Through teaching a rational person will make an informed decision to ensure her baby's health, and the goal here is to have a healthy happy outcome - a good baby and a good mom who had a good labor experience.
    I'm afraid that charging a woman with murder will lead other women with uneducated ideas about hospital births to avoid doctors and hospitals in the future - leading to even more bad outcomes!
  6. by   newgrad2004
    I'm Sorry I just dont get it. I would take a bullet for my kids, would step infront of an oncoming car to save them. Never even considering what it would do to me. Scar my face, scar my body, I do not care. I would choose my childrens lives before anything, even vanity. I have had one child I lost prematurely. I would have taken any scar to have him alive. I did have an emergency C/S, and have had 2 more since. (although, when I got cancer of the cervix I was vain but in the end chose to have the new scar to LIVE for my kids.) Would she not breast feed because her breasts might get smaller? Would she not worry about getting hemmroids, episiotomy, or having stretch marks?
    I'm sick about her decision. This is not the same as abortion, this appears to have been a child who could have been born alive, and had a chance at life. And her selfishness/vanity cost him his life. Sorry but she should not be a mother.

    What if her child falls into a pool and she just had her hair done, will she leave him fighting for life to go get someone else to rescue him/her?
  7. by   BabyRN2Be
    I don't know if this has been updated, but I had heard the other night on national news that this woman had tried to sell the surviving twin to a relative for bond money. I tried to find a link to this story, but I've been unsucessful.

    There's another link I've found that give more details surrounding this story. When she did eventually deliver, she was positive for alcohol and cocaine. This link goes a little more indepth to the story.
    http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Mar/03122004/utah/147031.asp

    It's amazing that she's doing so much talking from prison. I hope that her attorney is talking to her about how much she's saying to the press.

    Katherine
  8. by   newgrad2004
    Oh god, I just saw her picture. And she was vain? I think she was affraid of being tested for drugs, and going to jail any way.

    Im surprised she didn't just squat in some alley to have her kids.
  9. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from newgrad2004
    Oh god, I just saw her picture. And she was vain? I think she was affraid of being tested for drugs, and going to jail any way.

    Im surprised she didn't just squat in some alley to have her kids.

    ________________
  10. by   ktwlpn
    Quote from newgrad2004
    I'm Sorry I just dont get it. I would take a bullet for my kids, would step infront of an oncoming car to save them. Never even considering what it would do to me. Scar my face, scar my body, I do not care. I would choose my childrens lives before anything, even vanity. I have had one child I lost prematurely. I would have taken any scar to have him alive. I did have an emergency C/S, and have had 2 more since. (although, when I got cancer of the cervix I was vain but in the end chose to have the new scar to LIVE for my kids.) Would she not breast feed because her breasts might get smaller? Would she not worry about getting hemmroids, episiotomy, or having stretch marks?
    I'm sick about her decision. This is not the same as abortion, this appears to have been a child who could have been born alive, and had a chance at life. And her selfishness/vanity cost him his life. Sorry but she should not be a mother.

    What if her child falls into a pool and she just had her hair done, will she leave him fighting for life to go get someone else to rescue him/her?
    You are mis-informed. I have not seen any statement attributed to her that she refused the section because she did not want a scar
    -in fact she has
    had previous sections....She stated (and this has been quoted in many sources) "I don't want to be cut like that from breast to pubic bone" because "it will ruin my life" She was first hospitalized at the age of TWELVE...she had a mentally handicapped mother and was raised in the foster care system.Wether or not she was legally insane at the time if the babies birth remains to be seen but it is obvious she was not rational.And she did test postive for cocaine and etoh...i can't believe some of the judgemental attitudes on this thread....What kind of nurses are we?
  11. by   Zinnia
    Because the woman said she did not want to be cut from breastbone to pelvic bone, it makes me wonder what teaching she had. The scars for C-section are actually very small aren't they?
    And because the woman presented herself to the health care system when she did not feel her babies move shows some responsibility and concern.
    There is much more to this story.
  12. by   WalkingInTheRain
    It's really sad that poor baby.. The baby girl was already adopted..
  13. by   legsmalone
    Someone said it earlier and it is true, hindsight is 20/20.
    Unfortunately, while this pt chose to seek care, she also made the choice to leave 2 hospitals AMA. She had a history of 2 prior c sections, so it could have very well been she had a bad experience with one and didn't want to be subjected to it again.
    We may never know the whole story. I just pray for the baby who survived.

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