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| No. 90 | 
Feb 25, 2005, 04:09 AM
I've never seen a botched circ, per se, but I've seen many "regular" ones done, and I always think the same thing--it seems barbaric to me. That's just me, though. When my patients tell me they want a circ, naturally, I don't give my opinion. They have already made up their minds and it's not my business. But, sometimes they ASK and then I get to say how I really feel, which is fun for me. I am encouraged by how the procedure is getting less and less common.
I find it kind of amusing that fathers want their little boys to look like them, in the penis department. Seems a bit of an invasion of the kids' privacy? I dunno... seems weird. I don't go around saying "wow, I sure hope my daughter's boobs look just like mine!!"
There aren't too many things that get me riled up. Circs are one of them, though.
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Feb 25, 2005, 04:55 AM
Originally Posted by ShannonC I've never seen a botched circ, per se, but I've seen many "regular" ones done, and I always think the same thing--it seems barbaric to me. That's just me, though. When my patients tell me they want a circ, naturally, I don't give my opinion. They have already made up their minds and it's not my business. But, sometimes they ASK and then I get to say how I really feel, which is fun for me. I am encouraged by how the procedure is getting less and less common.
I find it kind of amusing that fathers want their little boys to look like them, in the penis department. Seems a bit of an invasion of the kids' privacy? I dunno... seems weird. I don't go around saying "wow, I sure hope my daughter's boobs look just like mine!!"
There aren't too many things that get me riled up. Circs are one of them, though.
I can understand the debate about infant circs - but why are you, or anyone else, especially women, concerned about adult circs? Why do you think it's "fun" to tell an adult male about YOUR personal opinion about circs?
Perhaps you'd like my opinion on labial reduction and contouring, which seems to be all the rage at my hospital right now. Should I offer that opinion to my patient should she ask? Do you think she'd appreciate the male perspective? I doubt it!!!
Oh, I know, how about this? Maybe when a woman comes in for a tubal ligation I could call her husband a wimp - if she asks for my opinion of course - since I think any man who would let his wife go through a potentially life-threatening surgery because he's too much of a baby to have his vas snipped is a first class wimp. After all - it's my opinion, perfectly valid in my mind.
Your personal opinions have no place when patients are getting ready for surgery. It's THEIR decision, not yours.
| | No. 92 |
Feb 25, 2005, 05:10 AM
Updated
Feb 25, 2005 at 05:13 AM by ShannonC
Originally Posted by jwk I can understand the debate about infant circs - but why are you, or anyone else, especially women, concerned about adult circs? Why do you think it's "fun" to tell an adult male about YOUR personal opinion about circs?
-I am not discussing adult circs at all, actually. Just infant ones. I have no exposure to adult circs. And the reason I say it is "fun" to give my opinion is sort of meant to be lighthearted... who amoung us doesn't like it when someone asks us to say how we really feel? And I'm also referring to instances when people ask me out right what my personal opinion is, you know? Not that I would think my opinion would factor in on such a personal decision--my ego isn't THAT big--but I just like being given the chance to speak my mind WHEN ASKED TO DO SO.
Perhaps you'd like my opinion on labial reduction and contouring, which seems to be all the rage at my hospital right now. Should I offer that opinion to my patient should she ask? Do you think she'd appreciate the male perspective? I doubt it!!!
-Ummm... I don't understand the connection here, but it seems like I have touched on a nerve or something, and have somehow personally offended you. I certainly didn't mean to. You seem to have pretty strong feelings about this topic.
Oh, I know, how about this? Maybe when a woman comes in for a tubal ligation I could call her husband a wimp - if she asks for my opinion of course - since I think any man who would let his wife go through a potentially life-threatening surgery because he's too much of a baby to have his vas snipped is a first class wimp. After all - it's my opinion, perfectly valid in my mind.
Your personal opinions have no place when patients are getting ready for surgery. It's THEIR decision, not yours.
Agreed, 100%, like I said above. But if my patients ASK ME, I'll tell them how I feel. It's why they asked.
Also, play nice, please.  | | No. 93 |
Feb 25, 2005, 05:15 AM
Well, shoot. I totally messed up my reply just now. I tried to quote and reply to different sections, but ended up just making it all messed up. My responses are in italics, making it look like they were part of the original quote. Then I tried to go fix it but wasn't able to...
Sorry for the mess!
| | No. 94 |
Feb 25, 2005, 07:13 AM
Originally Posted by jwk I can understand the debate about infant circs - but why are you, or anyone else, especially women, concerned about adult circs? Why do you think it's "fun" to tell an adult male about YOUR personal opinion about circs?
Perhaps you'd like my opinion on labial reduction and contouring, which seems to be all the rage at my hospital right now. Should I offer that opinion to my patient should she ask? Do you think she'd appreciate the male perspective? I doubt it!!!
Oh, I know, how about this? Maybe when a woman comes in for a tubal ligation I could call her husband a wimp - if she asks for my opinion of course - since I think any man who would let his wife go through a potentially life-threatening surgery because he's too much of a baby to have his vas snipped is a first class wimp. After all - it's my opinion, perfectly valid in my mind.
Your personal opinions have no place when patients are getting ready for surgery. It's THEIR decision, not yours.
Personally, I could care less what an adult male does do his penis, barring my own hubby of course. He can cut it off if he wants (just not my hubby  ). He is an adult and has every right to choose to have surgery on his body. All I am saying is that I think drs tend to ignore other alternatives here and rush into circing. A pt may not know there are alternatives. So he is not getting to make an informed decision for himself.
As for infant circs I am 100% against routine infant circs. I say let the man decided for himself when he is an adult.
| | No. 95 |
Feb 25, 2005, 07:20 AM
Originally Posted by Nursewise Maybe someday little boys will acquire the same legal status of little girls, where in the U.S.A., in the absence of any pathology, this kind of procedure is a felony.
Actually, there are very few laws to help little girls in the USA, regarding genital surgery. And even where there are, they are rarily enforced.
One of the medical groups (composed of OB/Gyn MDs) in the USA recently asked to rescind laws against female genital mutilation. The reason was to do it in a safe sterile way rather than the parents going "underground" and it being done unsafely.
| | No. 96 |
Feb 25, 2005, 08:21 AM
Routine infant circumcision, while not a pleasant or necessary procedure, is in a whole different ballpark than female genital mutilation (FGM). There are complications that can occur with RIC, but the majority of infants grow up without circumcision affecting their daily life. Unfortunately for women who suffered through FGM, it has lasting physical and psychological effects.
I am by no means defending RIC, but I feel that when people try to compare the two it is doing a disservice to the victims of FGM. JMHO.
For more information, check out http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/femgen/fgm1.htm#a4 | | No. 97 |
Feb 25, 2005, 12:00 PM
I don't like the comparisons between FGM and male circs either, but there are some similarities when looking at the milder forms of FGM (not complete infibulation). Usually people who are against FGM point to the complications, but many of those could be avoided by allowing docs to do it in a sterile environment. The question then becomes is it ok to cut off a normal part of a child's genitals if we minimize the chances of infection and other complications? The reasons people are in favor of it are the same reasons people use to promote male circs (hygeine, religion, societal norms, etc). I know in Canada this is considered child abuse and had to be reported to authorities. The first time I saw a woman who had this done, I didn't even know what I was looking at for a second.
| | No. 98 |
Feb 25, 2005, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by caroladybelle Actually, there are very few laws to help little girls in the USA, regarding genital surgery. And even where there are, they are rarily enforced.
One of the medical groups (composed of OB/Gyn MDs) in the USA recently asked to rescind laws against female genital mutilation. The reason was to do it in a safe sterile way rather than the parents going "underground" and it being done unsafely.
The Federal Prohibition of Female Genital Mutilation Act of 1995 states…
"Except as provided in the subsection (on medical necessity), whoever knowingly circumcises, excises, or infibulates the whole or ANY PART of the labia majora or labia minora or clitoris of another person who has not attained the age of 18 years shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."
"No account shall be taken of the effect on the person on whom the operation is to be performed of any belief on the part of that or any other person that the operation is required as a matter of custom or ritual."
The law covers any and all such procedures, however minimal.This sounds like Congress has taken this very seriously.
Nursewise
| | No. 99 |
Feb 26, 2005, 03:37 PM
 Kids say the darnestest things!
I don't believe in routine circumcision. When my 15 y/o was born people thought I was crazy not to get him circumcized. The pediatrician assured my husband that less than 1% of males ever have a problem with not being circumsized. I had done my homework and really had to present my husband with alot of information before he would agree to no circumcision and when the pediatrician added his two cents he was finally convinced.
When our son was 3 years old he developed phimosis. He had to be circumcized and it was very traumatic for him, he couldn't wear pants for over 3 weeks, and ran around in a large t-shirt all day. If I were to have another son (not happening I'm 49) but I would have him circumcized. I realize another son wouldn't necessarily have the same problem but I would not take the chance.
When we sat him down to explain what was going to happen we told him "when you get home you'll look just like daddy". His eyes got really big and he replied "no mama that's too big" !
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