The Circumcision Discussion

[jmspeach]

I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My husband says yes, it's better medically in the long run. My gpa who just turned 70 had to have a circ. due to endless complications lately.

As nurses in this area, is the medication that they use good? And what are some questions to ask my Dr. about it. I already know that my hospital i'll be at uses a med. when they perform it, I"m just wondering what you all think.

Thanks

Jen :)

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

Uncirced & condom > circed and rubberless any day of the week for me.

ETA - that came out way wrong. I meant that in terms of HIV protection, the former is far superior than the latter, and that's what I'll be teaching my son when he's of age.

[brillohead, ADN, RN]

It's not so much a question of seeing or not it would be a question of making an issue out of it.

Exactly..... etiquette is that you don't go looking at other peoples' private areas, and you certainly don't comment about it if you happen to see something unintentionally.

People may happen to notice, but they shouldn't be making comments about it, because that will publicize the fact that they were looking where they shouldn't have been looking.

[Joe12]

Ther is less HIV transmitted with circumcised boys. Here is an article from Newsweek: http://www.newsweek.com/id/192472

But my 15 yo son is not circed--he can do it later if he feels it needs to be done.

They've been talking about that for two year now. The thing is that we have to be careful how we apply this information. Even accepting the risk reduction suggested, usually around 50%, that has to be viewed in the context of the local risk. Regardless of what is read in the media the difference in risk between a circumcised and an intact boy in the US is going to be very small simply because the prevalence is low in the US especially among heterosexuals. I'll add that most other countries have already acknowledge that limitation. It might be a good reason to circumcise in some African countries but not here. Though I'll add even in those countries it should be an adult decision.

[Joe12]

On the whole, do staff help dissuade? No. There is a pocket of a few of us that remind parents that this is not a 'have-to' sort of thing under any circumstances and try to open a discussion. The truth is that about 90% of folks have their minds made up before they ever set foot in the hosp.

I suspected this was the case.

We do not have an extraordinarily high % of patients that do it for religious reasons, so mostly people do it for the supposed hygiene issue, or the matching-Daddy thing. It's a funny thing, though - 3/4 of our mgmt is totally against it, and almost all our hospital NPs are against it. I don't know why there isn't a bigger push in that direction.

This seems to me to be a wider spread situation then our rates would suggest. That is to say many medical professionals tend to be against it but not to the point of 'doing much' about it. The thing is that this is really how it was ended in New Zealand and Australia about 35 and 25 years ago respectively. Basically, they just stopped offering it; kind of a we just won't bring it up thing. I think this could be a model for the US. This is probably a decision made higher up but if most people on your floor were against it and just said let's just stop offering it might make more people think twice. I don't think there is a bigger push because they are afraid of offending others.

I do, however, make it a point to thank people who've chosen NOT to do it. It's amazing the response I get when I do that - I had one Mom breathe a big sigh of relief as she'd caught a lot of guff from family and friends re: not circing her boy.

That's great. I hope everyone here does something like that, give the parents some strength and encouragement especially considering the grief they might get from others. Something like a thank you, or "What a lucky boy!" :)

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

"he just uses water to wash. Not sure why he is anti soap, but he says water works just fine. He has never had any problems with not being cut. To be honest, you can't even really tell."

Your husband is right, one should never use soap inside the foreskin. This destroys the natural flora and fauna which makes it susceptible to infections and/or balantis.. AND causes keratinization and the subsequent loss of sensation.

I was meaning he just uses water to wash all of him. In Microbiology they told us to avoid antibacterial soaps but not soaps all together??? But I wasn't talking about specifically the foreskin. He uses just water for his hair to most of the time. LOL I am just happy he showers and brushs and flosses his teeth and wears deodorant and stuff.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

I'm sure most people wouldn't have an answer to that question but to be honest...if you're in a shower room and everyone is naked...you're going to notice anyway. Human nature I suppose.

My husband spent time in Juvie which offered no privacy at all and you showered with many people all at once. He also went to a HS with large un-private shower areas where they were REQUIRED to shower after PE back when you actually had PE daily.

He told me he never once had any problems about it. I was thrown back a little with my first B/f that wasn't circed. It's fairly common not to be in his culture, but I noticed it looked odd, I never said anything to him about it and I didn't snicker and laugh or think bad of him. I did call my mom though and asked her about it, because I was curious why it looked different.

From my time in working in Childcare I think not circ'ing is becoming more of a norm from what I could tell which is good and will take less pressure off for those mainly concerned about the vanity issue of it all.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

Our circ rate in the hospital runs about with the nationwide average, so if your boys are around here, they'll be in good company.

I'll be teaching my son a few good comebacks just in case he ever does get picked on, though.

My husband has said if anyone were to say something to him he would just tell them they are just jealous that sex feels better for him since he has more sensation then they would.

Obviously though a young boy can't be saying this LOL

Although why would anyone want to brag that they had part of their member hacked off. LOL

[consult2]

Actually this whole circumcision/HIV nonsense is hardly credible as have been all of the other claims for benefits for circumcision.

All it takes to reach this conclusion is a little logic and/or common sense:

IF circumcision reduces any disease, why does the circumcising US have higher rates of ALL of them than does the other intact industrialized countries? How would this be possible?

Outside of the US no other industrialized countries accepts that circumcision has any beneficial effect.

[UTVOL3]

I think this is great - we are currently losing at least six figures on circs alone at my hospital.

Our private docs, I am sure, make money off it, but our hospital surely doesn't.

Aha. Maybe this is the answer. I just don't see your average Joe Blow physician making big money off circs is all I am saying. I gathered that was kind of the reason they are slowly stopping doing them. The older attendings feel like it is kind of "piddly" and a big time waster. Now I cannot say anything about private practice docs or surgeons.

I am still just dumbfounded that there are docs going around doing this without any sort of pain control. Yes I can see the argument that it can cause complications but to me that it just a possible complication of having a circ.

I guess really the thing that gets me is that somewhere, there must be nurses that are assisting with this too. Freaking me out.

[Balder_LPN, LPN]

Back to the OP's ? "Should we circ our boy or not"

You may as well ask "Should we raise him as a Greek Orthodox or Roman Catholic?"

The answers would be no less biased, no more (or less) factual than the question you have asked. everyone has their opinion (belief) and the facts/stats can support either choice. No one will change their mind based on any info anyone else might provide.

In the end you must decide for yourself.

[consult2]

Ok, now I have to ask..WHAT are these FACTS that support circumcision--by facts, I mean those that can be scientifically supported?

In the end one must decide for THEMSELVES--not make this decision for non-consenting infants.

If one cannot be swayed by the facts, woe be to them--them are choosing to remain irrational!

[AirforceRN, RN]

Back to the OP's ? "Should we circ our boy or not"

You may as well ask "Should we raise him as a Greek Orthodox or Roman Catholic?"

The difference is he can choose to abandon his faith for another...can't say the same for a circumcised boy