The Circumcision Discussion - Page 93
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Jan 30, '09 by Joe12Quote from pmamajamaThat can defiantly be an exciting thing for an intact boy.Somewhere among the enormous amount of pages in this thread I read someone say that the foreskin cannot be retracted until puberty. As a mother of 3 boys, two of which are uncircumcised, I'd like to point out that the foreskin can, indeed, be retracted before puberty.
My two youngest boys are not circumcised. The 7 year old's foreskin is only partially retractable. The 4 year olds, however, is completely retractable. He pulls his foreskin back and washes his "weiner ball" every time he bathes.
That's his name for it, by the way. At around 3, he came out of the bathroom exclaiming (with a look of utter amazement on his face) that there was a ball in his weiner. Loads of fun when he insisted on asking everyone (and I do mean EVERYONE) he met in the next few weeks if they wanted to see it. Yeah.
As far as when it can happen, it can be anytime between birth and late teens. By 10, only about 50% are fully retractable the numbers increase quickly after that.
It's explained pretty well here: http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/Smurfette752 likes this. - Jan 30, '09 by Joe12Quote from vashteePenile cancer:Really? Can you provide a link that supports this?
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/co...evented_35.asp
Cancer Generally:
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/cancer/
Even cervical cancer is not terribly common in western countries, only about 10,000 cases per year in the US most of those in women who haven't had screenings in many years. Of those most can be treated. Further, the introduction of the cervical cancer vaccine, which has been available for nearly 4 years now, will push those numbers down much further making circumcision obsolete for this problem, even if it did have an effect (which I don't think it does). In fact, the number of cases of cervical cancer is low enough that some even make compelling arguments [from a cost/benefit perspective] against the need for the vaccination.Last edit by Joe12 on Jan 30, '09Smurfette752 likes this. -
Jan 31, '09 by vashteeQuote from Joe12I think the problem is that different agencies make different statements about the benefits of circumcision. Here is the CDC site:Penile cancer:
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/co...evented_35.asp
Cancer Generally:
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/cancer/
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/fac...rcumcision.htm
Just so you know, as the mother of a daughter, I say ANY amount of preventable cervical cancer is too much.
- Jan 31, '09 by Joe12Quote from vashteeIf the CDC is saying the reduction in penile cancer is a benefit of circumcision they'd be about the only group that says as much, though I wouldn't be surprised. The problem is that most benefits, if they exist, are trivial or can be easily realized using less invasive, more effective, and safer means. Most other western countries have recognized that, it's hard to understand why we are always behind. In fact, most of the research that tries to ferret out circumcision benefits is fund by the US. One would think that after 100 years enough would be enough.I think the problem is that different agencies make different statements about the benefits of circumcision. Here is the CDC site:
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/fac...rcumcision.htm
Just so you know, as the mother of a daughter, I say ANY amount of preventable cervical cancer is too much.
In any case, as to the cervical cancer specifically, I understand your position and that is why I don't believe that cost of the vaccine should be much of an issue, I am just pointing out that many people have made convincing arguments with regard to its cost benefit. Indecently, Merck has made an application to the FDA to recommend the cervical vaccine for boys too. However, even if there was not a vaccine the numbers wouldn't justify circumcision the ethical bar to perform a circumcision [or any other medical/surgical procedure] via proxy consent should be very high and to perform it for the benefit of another it should be obscenely high. No current purported benefit, even if you believe the current figures, comes close. They only serve to buttress previously held cultural or religious excuses. It's a convenient way for the various agencies to avoid confronting the significant ethical issues.Last edit by Joe12 on Jan 31, '09Elvish likes this. - Feb 19, '09 by JanisMThe only reason I can see for circumcision is to make parents happy. I refused to mutilate my boys and their father is also 'intact'. Of course they were taught strict hygiene-they would have whether or not they were circumcised.Smurfette752 likes this.
- Feb 21, '09 by k-t-didI don't have time to read all the discussions...but I will give you my experience. I watched my son's circumcision.
he was strapped to the circ board, but he was sleeping and did not wake. They warmed it prior.
My OB did the procedure, and numbed the area with a local. He began pushing the med. before pricking the skin, so that it numbed on its way in.
i could not see the nuts and bolts b/c of where I stood, but what I DID see was that my son did not wake up during the procedure. He slept through it. I have a hard time getting people to believe me, but I saw it with my own eyes. He sucked his little syringe of glucose during the procedure and did not cry until he was woken up to be re-swaddled, then went right back to sleep. - Feb 21, '09 by k-t-didI refused to mutilate my boys
and frankly,I think inflammatory language like this is uncalled for on a board for medical professionals.lamazeteacher and tvccrn like this. - Guide
Feb 21, '09 by ElvishIt may be inflammatory....but there are people who believe that cutting off a piece of healthy, normally-functioning tissue is just that. If you would call removing the clitoral hood of a woman mutilation, why is the exact same procedure, done on a boy, any different?
I am obviously anti-circ, but it's because I have seen so many circs and really believe that, even with all the pain control in the world, they are still unnecessarily cruel. That may be a strong word but no medical association in the world recommends it, yet we continue to do it. - Guide
Feb 21, '09 by Spidey's momQuote from k-t-didI don't have time to read all the discussions...but I will give you my experience. I watched my son's circumcision.
he was strapped to the circ board, but he was sleeping and did not wake. They warmed it prior.
My OB did the procedure, and numbed the area with a local. He began pushing the med. before pricking the skin, so that it numbed on its way in.
i could not see the nuts and bolts b/c of where I stood, but what I DID see was that my son did not wake up during the procedure. He slept through it. I have a hard time getting people to believe me, but I saw it with my own eyes. He sucked his little syringe of glucose during the procedure and did not cry until he was woken up to be re-swaddled, then went right back to sleep.
I've seen many circumcisions as an OB nurse in a small rural hospital. And I've seen exactly what you've described many many times.
Having said that - I do NOT think it is necessary to circ baby boys. However, all 3 of mine are circ'd due to their fathers. (My two oldest have a different dad than my youngest - due to divorce). Both men insisted on circumcision - the first one was the hardest - we argued throughout my pregnancy and for the 3 days after he was born until I finally signed the papers, crying. I made him watch with our second son and he thought it was "cool". My second husband also insisted on circing our son.
This has been said by me on this long long thread . .but both my adult sons, when asked, are HAPPY they are circ'd and both said they would be very angry with me if I had won that argument.
Lots of differences of opinon on this issue - my take is let each family decide. With the proper education first of course. One of our docs does not use lidocaine . . . . . I refused to help him. And he usually didn't tell the parents. I made sure they got instructions prior to ask certain questions . .like "what kind of pain control do you use?".
stephtvccrn likes this. - GuideFeb 21, '09 by Spidey's momRemembering that I'm not in favor of circumcision . . . I think "mutilate" is a bit over the top.
steph
