The Circumcision Discussion - page 87

by jmspeach 187,324 Views | 1299 Comments

I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My husband says yes, it's better... Read More


  1. 3
    I kinda think the act itself is an exercise in cruelty...with or without the pain relieving issues.
    Me, too. The thought of cutting away part of someones genitals makes me shudder.
    Quote from KYCNM
    I understand that, however, that does not address the situation if the parents have REQUESTED that the baby be circumcised. There may be no medical indication, I am not arguing that point. Many parents still WANT their child circumcised. They have made this decision long before they arrived in the hospital, and do not need to be confronted by someone on a mission. The point is that some nurses are stuck in the past when they were taught that "infants don't have a memory for pain" or "they get over it".
    Make whatever decision you want personally. That doesn't change the fact that you may have to support parental choices with which you disagree.

    My earlier point was that if parents do opt for circumcision, we owe the babies the best pain management available. Whether it's insisting that a doc wait for analgesia to take hold or making certain that the babies get follow-up Tylenol as needed, we as nurses have the power to help reduce the pain of the procedure to a minimum, and we ought to be doing so, apart from individual opinions regarding circumcision.
    NRSKarenRN, Living4GLKN, and tvccrn like this.
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    Quote from rn/writer
    My earlier point was that if parents do opt for circumcision, we owe the babies the best pain management available.
    Agreed 100%
    rn/writer likes this.
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    Ok, here is my food for thought.

    Say a parent comes to me and wants to have their baby girl's labia pricked. Nothing disfiguring, just to draw a drop of blood or two. (This is indeed a form of FGC practiced. Not all FGC is of the infibulation sort.) They want it done with local anesthetic, and under sterile conditions. The parents believe there is societal and medical benefit to this.

    I tell my pro-circ coworkers when they understand their reaction to the above and why, then perhaps they'll understand my reaction to circumcising boys.

    I have had people laugh at me when I suggest that instead of Tylenol, we use morphine for boys getting circed. But why not? Would you want your genitals cut on with only tylenol to help you out later? I am quite outspoken about this at work. It makes me crazy. Honestly, I feel more strongly about circ than about breastfeeding.
  4. 1
    Quote from Elvish
    Ok, here is my food for thought.

    Say a parent comes to me and wants to have their baby girl's labia pricked. Nothing disfiguring, just to draw a drop of blood or two. (This is indeed a form of FGC practiced. Not all FGC is of the infibulation sort.) They want it done with local anesthetic, and under sterile conditions. The parents believe there is societal and medical benefit to this.

    I tell my pro-circ coworkers when they understand their reaction to the above and why, then perhaps they'll understand my reaction to circumcising boys.

    I have had people laugh at me when I suggest that instead of Tylenol, we use morphine for boys getting circed. But why not? Would you want your genitals cut on with only tylenol to help you out later? I am quite outspoken about this at work. It makes me crazy. Honestly, I feel more strongly about circ than about breastfeeding.
    you go girl!!!!
    Elvish likes this.
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    Quote from RN mom of 2
    Seriously, bless your heart!
    Quote from RN mom of 2

    My hubby felt the same exact way. Once he heard about the baby passing out he wanted nothing to do with it.
    __________________________________________________ _________

    I have seen literally thousands of "circ"s, from the '50s through the '90s, working in OB. I have NEVER seen a baby pass out during one! Now it's possible that a compromised newborn with respiratory distress could, if the circ is done immediately following delivery (I've seen that happen less times than at 2 days of age). Exposing a newborn infant to air cooler than his mom's insides causes respiratory problems and I suppose freaking out over being cold could cause extreme crying, too. (A warm blanket may be too bulky

    or cool off too soon.)

    The best circs I've ever seen are ritual ones done on the 8th day of life by a specially trained "moile" of the Jewish faith. They inspect, sharpen and keep their scalpels better than any central supply ever would, and part of the ceremony includes putting a balled up, securely stitched gauze blob, saturated in red wine in the baby's mouth, and sucking occurs. That is a sign that the baby is healthy, and then sedated. (It does not lead to alcoholism, in fact for centuries Jewish males had a very low incidence of alcoholism.) There are many loving relatives and friends in the room (as it's usually done at home), and I swear those vibes are perceived by the baby. Much less crying is seen in those kiddos. (And that was also the case previous to the existance of EMLA.)


    Circumcision is an ethnic decision. Some cultures believe it creates better hygiene and less disease and as we know, belief turns into fact, like a placebo (but keep on with the research, y'all). Some TV and radio docs have audiences who love to hear that it's unnecessary.

    An earlier post explained that the EMLA patch was given 30 minutes to work, which is insufficient. It needs about an hour. I went to a seminar about 30 years ago at Stanford University Medical Center regarding Pediatric Pain Prevention. The audience numbered about 750 professionals, and everyone was convinced that any pain producing procedure should include local anaesthesia.


    So what happened to the "ripple" effect? Am I the only participant who's been proclaiming ever since, the necessity for more humane treatment of babies and children, a voice in the wind? I do a lot of public speaking, and my voice carries......... I've told all the students in my prenatal classes to ask for EMLA for their sons before a circ and including girls for phlebotomies, or splinter removal or whatever happens to their children that's painful. I can't see why it has to be prescribed, when bandaids and ointments contain local anaesthetics! Where are the humanitarians?


    Please print this, and post it in NICUs, newborn nurseries, phlebotomy departments, EDs, and doctors' lounges and conference rooms at your facilities, especially geriatric ones. Most of our little old almost mindless folks don't have defenses against pain any more than children do.


    Many doctors' chauvanistic tendency toward doing things the way it's always been, prevents this from being carried out, so we still have phobic adults refusing or not showing up to have blood tests, escapee children hiding somewhere rather than have a blood draw, or injections of vaccine/antibiotic (and with the number of vaccines given today, it brutalizes
    infants and young children). Don't tell me they don't remember, when they start crying upon hearing that they're going to the doctor's office!


    Adults who suffer their anxiety in silence, have more stress produced diseases. Preventing pain is an act of kindness, folks!
    Last edit by lamazeteacher on Jan 15, '09 : Reason: clarity
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    Quote from 2curlygirls
    But then the local wears off and it hurts!!! Every time the baby pees, they scream! And many don't want to breastfeed for a long time afterward.

    No medical reason to do it. None.
    I agree 100%! Actually, uncircumcised males have better orgasms as they have more nerve endings... Just food for thought
    Smurfette752 and GooeyRN like this.
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    Quote from GooeyRN
    Me, too. The thought of cutting away part of someones genitals makes me shudder.

    Me three...I think it is barbaric, and cruel...to say the least.

    I am a mom of an intact son, I am in nursing school and am so afraid for when I have to do my clinical's in L&D....even though that is where I want to work. I personally hope that they outlaw it...and yes, I do believe that it is wrong. I know there are a lot of people here who will disagree (and I respect your opinion, even if I don't agree) but I think it is genital mutilation. I have don very extensive research on the topic, and even wrote a Medical Ethics paper on the subject. I just don't understand why this barbaric practice is still allowed in today's society. It is that boys penis....autonomy alone states that HE is the one who should be making that decision. Not to mention that 80% of the worlds men aren't circ'd.

    Anyhow.....JMO.
    k8ie510 and GooeyRN like this.
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    i, too, am a mother of an intact son! during my l&d rotation, i refused to watch the procedure being performed as i truly and wholeheartedly think it's completely ludicrous, cruel, and unnecessary...period! plus, and possibly most importantly, our little baby boys should be able to make that decision themselves (when they get older, of course). part of their penis is being removed for goodness sake!!!
    Elvish, hillarypeace2006, GooeyRN, and 1 other like this.
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    I am so tired of people getting on their soapboxes and preaching to us parents that choose to circ. So tired of it.

    My 3 year old son was circ'd with a plasti bell, didn't cry, and has had no ill effects from it whatsoever. Everything is fine. I did not 'mutiliate' my son as some on their high horses have stated that's what they consider circ'ing a child to be.

    I am currently 27 weeks pregnant with son #2. You betcha I'm getting him circ'd when he's born too.

    Personal decision. End of story.
    lamazeteacher and tvccrn like this.
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    Quote from VizslaMom
    I am so tired of people getting on their soapboxes and preaching to us parents that choose to circ. So tired of it.

    My 3 year old son was circ'd with a plasti bell, didn't cry, and has had no ill effects from it whatsoever. Everything is fine. I did not 'mutiliate' my son as some on their high horses have stated that's what they consider circ'ing a child to be.

    I am currently 27 weeks pregnant with son #2. You betcha I'm getting him circ'd when he's born too.

    Personal decision. End of story.

    Ahh but who are you to decide if you mutilated him or not? How about letting your son grow up into an adult and then ask HIM how he feels about people cutting parts off of him.

    Yes, it is mutilation, whether pain is felt or not.

    mutilation
    Disfigurement; a major reduction or alteration of a limb or tissue, which may be intentional or accidental.


    I bet if we started circumcising female babies there would be all kinds of wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    k8ie510 likes this.


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