The Circumcision Discussion - page 55

I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My... Read More

  1. by   GI Jane
    I'm British, but my daughter married an american and is about to have a her newborn son circumcised, I'm afraid i find it disgusting and uncivilised.
    Can i point out:

    There are no significant, proven heath benefits of circumcision. the American Academy of Pediatrics stated;" the Academy concluded that there was no absolute medical indication for routine circumcision" (AAP Circumcision Policy Statement 1999).

    There are no hygiene issues that can't be solved with soap and water.

    In the UK we have very strict ethical and legal standards.

    Surely there are Human Rights issues surrounding this?

    Don't you have informed consent in the US?


    Might i suggest you leave the boys untill they are over 18 years and ask them then if they want to look like their dads!!!
  2. by   ElvishDNP
    Hey, I completely agree with you on all points, Jane. My dh and son are both intact.

    I had just remembered that one dad that said he wanted to have his boy circed bc Jesus was. I can't think of a single GOOD reason to do it, but that ranks right up there as one of the worst for sure.
  3. by   rnin02
    Quote from Arwen_U
    Probably the most interesting reason a parent gave me for having their baby circed was that "Jesus was circumcised."


    Now, before anybody gets upset, I have no problem with people wanting to follow Jesus.
    But if you believe the Bible, then a lot of other things happened to Jesus that you might not want to have happen to your child. Please find a better reason to circ him!!
    What a reason! People are funny sometimes. Does anyone watch "Desperate Housewives"? The last episode cracked me up!
  4. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from GI Jane
    I'm British, but my daughter married an american and is about to have a her newborn son circumcised, I'm afraid i find it disgusting and uncivilised.
    Can i point out:

    There are no significant, proven heath benefits of circumcision. the American Academy of Pediatrics stated;" the Academy concluded that there was no absolute medical indication for routine circumcision" (AAP Circumcision Policy Statement 1999).

    There are no hygiene issues that can't be solved with soap and water.

    In the UK we have very strict ethical and legal standards.

    Surely there are Human Rights issues surrounding this?

    Don't you have informed consent in the US?


    Might i suggest you leave the boys untill they are over 18 years and ask them then if they want to look like their dads!!!

    My boys are glad they are circ'd . . . .I specifically asked them when this subject first came up on allnurses a few years back. Both boys said they would be very angry with me if I had managed to talk their dad into NOT having them circ'd. They did not want to go through their teen years NOT circ'd. I guess up here there was only one boy NOT circ'd (and his dad is kind of an old hippie and his mom is Asian) and he was unfortunately teased, a lot.

    Remember - I'm against circing.

    But waiting until the boys are 18, might just p i z z them off.

    Not that that is an argument . . . .

    steph
  5. by   vashtee
    Quote from GI Jane
    There are no significant, proven heath benefits of circumcision. the American Academy of Pediatrics stated;" the Academy concluded that there was no absolute medical indication for routine circumcision" (AAP Circumcision Policy Statement 1999).

    !
    You know, I don't have a problem with people who decide NOT to circumcize, but to say there are NO proven health benefits is untrue. Whether or not you consider the risk of contracting HIV significant enough to warrant circumcising, there is no question that it has a medical benefit. The National Institute of Health backs circumcision as a way to reduce the HIV transmission rate, and The World Health Organization said that making circumcision widely available, inexpensive and safe could prevent 5.7 million HIV infections over the next 20 years.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6176209.stm

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...102001206.html
  6. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from natania
    You know, I don't have a problem with people who decide NOT to circumcize, but to say there are NO proven health benefits is untrue. Whether or not you consider the risk of contracting HIV significant enough to warrant circumcising, there is no question that it has a medical benefit. The National Institute of Health backs circumcision as a way to reduce the HIV transmission rate, and The World Health Organization said that making circumcision widely available, inexpensive and safe could prevent 5.7 million HIV infections over the next 20 years.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6176209.stm

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...102001206.html
    Medical benefit is for sexually active men. Not newborns. So let them get in line when they decide to become sexually active.

    Still NO medical benefit to circumcising infants.
  7. by   vashtee
    Quote from Arwen_U
    Medical benefit is for sexually active men. .
    Thank you for clarifying this. It is one thing to say there is no medical benefit for an infant, and quite another to say there is no medical benefit at all.
    Last edit by vashtee on Nov 13, '07
  8. by   czyja
    Quote from GI Jane

    Surely there are Human Rights issues surrounding this?

    Don't you have informed consent in the US?


    Might i suggest you leave the boys untill they are over 18 years and ask them then if they want to look like their dads!!!
    One would think that this issue would have been examined withing the context of human rights, but I cannot find any specific literature on it.

    In the case of minor, informed consent for a surgical procedure is given by the parent.

    From a human rights perspective, it is noteworthy that there are two types of rights - individual rights and collective or group rights. It might be argued that an individual has the right to have their genitals left alone (I hold this position). It is also argued that a culture has the right to engage in its cultural practiced even if other cultures find them barbaric. Female genital cutting is a good example here - some would say that we in West have no business dictating cultural norms to other societies. And so a conflict between individual rights and group rights arises.

    I agree with you BTW - leave em alone till you can ask em. A friend of mine did not circ her son. He had the procedure done when he was 14. He initiated the discussion with his mother, she took him to the urologist, the urologist tried to dissuade him from doing it but the lad was determined and in the end the urologist agreed.

    What does your son think about this? If i were you I wouldn't mention it to your daughter in law in the interest of family harmony but I sure would want to know how your son feels. If he is not in agreement with his wife then he really ought to prevent this from happening.
  9. by   ElvishDNP
    I think it is Jane's daughter who's married to an American; in this case, I can see where the conflict lies. Where I work we have a fairly high # of Hispanic women - whose culture traditionally doesn't circ - married with American men, who want their sons circed. There tends to be quite an animated discussion among these couples, and it pains me to say it, but they usually decide for circ. And most of the moms aren't happy about it but feel they have no choice.
  10. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from natania
    Thank you for clarifying this. It is one thing to say there is no medical benefit for an infant, and quite another to say there is no medical benefit at all.
    I understand what you are saying.

    However, I also think it's worth noting that the US - which has a higher circ rate (~60%) - also has a much higher HIV transmission rate than many many countries that don't routinely circ.

    Personally, I'd much rather my son learn about his body, and about abstinence, monogamy and condoms than have me rely on circumcision to keep him HIV-free.
  11. by   czyja
    Quote from Arwen_U
    I think it is Jane's daughter who's married to an American; in this case, I can see where the conflict lies. .
    Aha. Perhaps I should read a little more carefully before I post. :trout:

    In any event it is tough situation for a grandparent to be in. Best of luck sorting this out. And it is a tough place for a couple to be in at such a joyous time. Although I hope they see fit to leave your grandson's foreskin alone I suspect fighting families do more damage to a boy than circumcision.

    It is curious to find you again on this forum Arwen. We both appear to take an interest in the most passionate and polarized topics on Allnurses. Separated at birth?
  12. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from czyja
    It is curious to find you again on this forum Arwen. We both appear to take an interest in the most passionate and polarized topics on Allnurses. Separated at birth?
    Maybe, but I doubt it. I weighed 9lbs at birth. There would've been no room for you!!!!!

    Good to see you again!
  13. by   vashtee
    Quote from Arwen_U

    However, I also think it's worth noting that the US - which has a higher circ rate (~60%) - also has a much higher HIV transmission rate than many many countries that don't routinely circ.
    I'm not sure that is relevant. I believe the HIV rate in America is largely due to IV drug use, and not sexual intercourse. If the IV drug use is higher in the US, then it stands to reason that HIV rates would be higher, too.

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