Nurses Helping Nurses
allnurses Network: Central | Jobs | Books | Newsletter
allnurses: A Nursing Community for Nurses
Home General News Blogs Articles Students Region Specialty Degrees F.A.Q.
Ob-Gyn Nursing /

An OB's Birth Plan



Did You Know?
allnurses is the largest community for nurses on the web. We now have over 388,615 members! Join today to network with other nurses, laugh, share, and much more.
Page 3 of 5 < 12 3 45 >

No. 20
from midwife228
Old Mar 05, 2009, 02:11 PM

Default Re: An OB's Birth Plan
You are so right about informed consent! It certainly is nearly missing from OB, although I think you will usually find it with a midwife. I think it is terrible the way that many OBs manipulate their clients for their own convenience without ever discussing the risks and benefits of all those interventions. Though, truthfully, there also are women out there (I see them every hospital shift that I work) who even in 2009 don't want to know about options and risks; they just want someone else to take responsibility for making their choices for them. I find that very sad. Anyway, I do wish you all the best. I hope you find a midwife that you love and that you have a wonderful birth experience...keep us posted, please!
Top

1 Reader Gave Kudos
 
Advertisement
Sponsored Links
 
No. 21
from KittyKat19
Old Mar 05, 2009, 02:26 PM

Default Re: An OB's Birth Plan
Yeah, forget "informed consent," this guy isn't really even into "consent" at all. What's up with the "at my discretion" used several places in his letter?
Top
 
No. 22
Old Mar 05, 2009, 02:38 PM

Default Re: An OB's Birth Plan
And I certainly don't mean to step on toes either--everyone is entitled to their opinion here. I am all for a patient having a midwife deliver and having all other staff stay out of the hospital room and letting her and her patient and the patients parner/spouse have whatever experience they need to have. dim light, a quiet and calm environment, moving around, the warm tub.....When I had these patients protocol was we just had to do a hand held quick check doppler fetal HR, done in the tub...all good? then they go back to doing their thing. Thats fine ....but if need be all the care the mom or baby could need in a emergency is on the other side of the wall. Not needed then fine --they stay out and let you be. Thats all.
I am just not a big fan of using the--we have done it like that for years ---yeah well we didn't use car seats back in the day either......or for that matter wash hands like we do today!! LOL
Top
 
No. 23
from ldchargern
Old Mar 05, 2009, 04:12 PM

Default Re: An OB's Birth Plan
WOW!!!!!!

I have never seen anything like this is my entire career!! He or she is crazy! I am going to print this and post it at work and see what my coworkers say!

Please find another doc.
Top
 
No. 24
from BabyLady
Old Mar 05, 2009, 05:11 PM

Default Re: An OB's Birth Plan
This doctor is absolutely, no question, out of his mind.

He is an arrogant dictator...and that is the last thing you want during the birth of your child.
Top
 
No. 25
from CEG
Old Mar 05, 2009, 08:36 PM

Default Re: An OB's Birth Plan
Run! Run! Far and fast!! Only if he wrote this in 1975 does it match ACOG recommendations! Let alone actual evidence-based practices! Find a new provider now!
Top
 
No. 26
from CEG
Old Mar 05, 2009, 08:42 PM

Default Re: An OB's Birth Plan
Originally Posted by psychRNinNY View Post
I hate to say this but this is how most docs practice even if they don't put it into writing like this doc did. I might suggest that you find a midwife. And honestly I am a huge believer that at home deliveries are just stupid. I have seen bad things happen REALLY fast in what was EXPECTED to be a totally normal and routine delivery. Times when if that delivery was going on at home both mom and baby would have died!!! A matter of a few minutes between --all is good and holy crap get into the OR NOW!!! We got about 10 seconds to get this baby out....I've seen a mom go into DIC and end up almost dying and in the ICU for weeks afterward--totally unexpected. That is a HUGE risk to deliver a home. Stupid if you ask me. As far as the Bradley method-- done by the book so to say this plan is a huge pain in the butt!! And my biggest problem with it is that it tells not to have a baby getting the meds that are standard to give on delivery-- The shot of Vit.K which is needed for the baby to be able to clot his own blood--adults produce Vit. K in the intestinal tract, by bacteria there...this does not happen right away in babies. They should get Erythromycin ointment in the eyes to prevent infections from causing blindness......this method tell parents not to allow these meds......the other benefit the baby gets from the shot is that yes they cry a bit...but in a brand new baby that is good, the crying helps them to clear their lungs....I have seen babies that didn't cry at all until that shot, despite many efforts and this was what got them crying to clear the lungs.....something they have to do.
I honestly do not believe you were an L & D RN any time in recent memory. The points that you make here are not only not evidence-based, but there is not even a factual basis of any type for many of them. You are entitled to your opinion but if you are going to give advice to anyone from a position of authority as a nurse then you need to research these issues.
Top

7 Readers Gave Kudos
 
No. 27
from eden
Old Mar 06, 2009, 08:56 PM

Default Re: An OB's Birth Plan
Honestly I would find a new Ob as well. Many of his guidlines are not standard practice elsewhere.

Awhonn guildlines suggest that IA has comprable, if not better outcomes then continuous EFM. Yes there are times when it is necessary and beneficial but for a low risk pegnancy there is no reason to automatically start with EFM.

Why in a normal, low risk pregnancy must there be an IV? Where I work they are most certainly not mandatory and we have never had a problem getting IV access if needed. We have guildlines as to who needs IV's but just walking in the door is not one of those criteria.

Position changes are great to keep labour moving, best thing you can do is use gravity. One of the first things you do if baby is having decels in the heartrate is to change mom's position.

You are most certainly within your right to refuse an AROM, yes it may be helpful but certainly should not be done without your consent.

Where I am most ob's still deliver in stirrups but there are some that are more open to other positions. While most ob's do not like to delay cord clamping most will respect your right to have it done, barring an emergency.

I'm sorry but there most certainly is a higher risk of complication and c-sections when induced. There is no evidence that it is unsafe to deliver a healthy woman at 40+/41+ weeks as long as the baby is monitored and yes you always have the right to negotiate whether or not you need a section, depending on the reason for it, that is all a part of informed consent.
Top

1 Reader Gave Kudos
 
No. 28
from KittyKat19
Old Mar 07, 2009, 02:07 PM

Default Re: An OB's Birth Plan
******
Top
 
No. 29
from Dayray
Old Mar 11, 2009, 02:16 AM
Updated Mar 11, 2009 at 02:46 AM by Dayray

Default Re: An OB's Birth Plan
First let me say that I don't agree with a lot of the things he says in his "plan" I also think that you need to find a doctor that approaches birth plans as a discussion aimed at arriving at a plan that is both safe and addresses your desires and concerns that you can both agree on.

That being said, I cannot help you with resources to refute his birth plan. it is written completely in line with ACOG guidelines with a few exceptions) and the latest accepted research. ACOG guidelines are set up as a template based on statistics which is the accepted way of directing medical care. It does not mean that those things are the best for you in your particular pregnancy or situation it is instead safety by statistics (i.e. this works for 90% of people and 1% will have sever problems if you don’t do it this way)

The things I see in here that don't have anything to do with ACOG are ( as I went threw these I see that I actually don’t agree with most of it but I do see where he is coming from lol):

HOME delivery, water birth and delivery in a dark room- home birth is great (if it goes well), horrible if it doesn’t: most of the time birth goes well with little need for intervention and usually those interventions are simple however if problems develop they can be catastrophic when you are out of hospital because it takes 5,10,15,30,60 minutes to get to a hospital and that may be too late.

Water birth is fine but unless your practitioner is trained and comfortable doing them it can be dangerous. just think of bending over in a weird position and trying to do the things you normally do without falling in the tub also if you really want water birth please make sure you watch a few tapes of water births before you make your final decision.

dim room - the thing he is worried about here is not being able to see. many times problems with delivery and possibility of tearing can be seen ahead of time if you have a clear view. that being said if you spend some time with the patient before delivery then your eyes are adjusted and you can see better also doctors tend to sit or stand at the foot of the bed away from the patient . if you are sitting near the patient on the foot of the bed or with them on the floor, couch, stool you can not only see better but can easily feel with your hand the same things you assess with your eyes.

not accepting birth plans/ Bradley - The underlying idea he has here is good but the harshness and finality with which he states it is insulting and in and of its self would make me look for a different practioner. what he is trying to do here is head off any weirdness that comes up. these things are rampant on the internet and coming from childbirth advocates with little education or experience. so i can see why he wants to state he wont do those things but again it needs to be a discussion and not a edict from him.

not accepting Bradley- The way he puts it and the finality with which he states it is again a red flag. Again i can see his point here however. The Bradley method works well for some people although i don’t particularly like it the problem comes because for some reason Bradley has been embraced by the most devote anti-medical birth advocates some but not all bradley instructors teach a distrust of the medical profession in general also the idea of the father as a protector is great except that if the father is a control freak or is unsympathetic to the women’s pain he becomes a huge problem it was not the internet of original Bradley but the father is told it is his job to keep the mother from taking pain medicine and they sometimes become abusive in keeping her from doing this also I have strong opioins that it is the mothers decision to take pain medicine even if she makes that decisition when in labor , yeah you offer other ways of dealing with labor and confirm her decision several times before actually giving them but it is her decision and she does not need a guy to make her feel bad or like a failure because of it. aside from any of this i find it really really strange that bradley has been embraced by so many child birth advocates. I have known several nurses that worked with Dr Bradley. All of them describe him as mean demeaning, paternalistic and some times abusive in his practice in reading his book and considering his method you can see this. ( ia m sorry for the personaly opioin here) Bradley works fine for some people and if you like it you shoudl use it.

Douala’s and labor coaches as visitors - I completely agree with this one. doulas can be great they can also be horrible when their agenda is not to give you a good experience but to serve an agenda of their own: either unmedicated child birth at all costs, a desire to be a nurse or doctor and make nursing/ medical decisions, or placeing their desire to experience your birth above the desire to help youhave the best experience or to learn even at the expense of your comfort. I have worked with hundreds of doulas and only had problems with 2 of them and a few others that i didn’t have a problem with but saw them as spectators more then labor support. in most cases even overly aggressive doulas can be worked with when you refocus them on the patients well being and experience but in the rare cases you cannot they need to be removed. I have to wonder though. it is so rare that these problems come up, why did he feel the need to put it in print.

IV access- I have mixed feelings on this one but I think it should be left up to the patient as long as they don’t have factors that make their labor high risk. there is nothing more beautiful then a women sitting in a rocking chair or walking for a few hours and then delivering with no cervical exams, Ivs or meds and little interferance from us at the same time there is nothing more terrifying then having a post partum humoring without IV access in most cases i can start an Iv and give meds in 30-60 seconds but I fear for the times that i cannot and there are other emergences when IV access is even more critical it is defiantly safer to have an IV and its only a small discomfort but if you don’t have any risk factors and understand the risks of not having one it is your right to say no.

Continues monitoring after 4 cm - the only guild line i know for that is AWHONN's guideline for intermittent monitoring. if you don’t have any problems or reasons to watch closely i.e. non reassuring heartones, abnormal growth, placenta issues like low lying, partial abruption or previa, bleeding or something else. then AWHONN's minimum fetal monitoring is heartones every 30 min preferably before during and after a contraction for about 3 min with 20 min strip every 2 hours and continues while you are pushing. I generally follow AWHONNs recommendations and if something makes me feel i need to watch closer we talk about it. the only ACOG guidelines i know of are for monitoring following decels I am sure they have a guild line for intermittent monitoring that is similar to AWHONNs. his position on fetal monitoring is excessive but i know why he takes this position some times weird stuff happens and the only way to be 100% sure we catch them is to have you on the monitor all the time. I see his point but with AWHONNs guideline and assessment as well as info from prenatals i think it is relatively safe to let people be at least a little free during labor. you can find lots of studies that prove fetal monitoring is not that reliable ( and it really is not 100% or even clsoe to it) but it is all we have and legally if we don’t use us it we are up the creek also i wouldn’t use AHWONN guild lines when writing a letter to a doctor. They tend to scoff at guid lines set by a nursing organization.

epidural - it is true that the current research says that epidurals do not hamper labor in any way. But any person who works in obstetrics can tell you that’s not true. there are also doctors who go the completely opposite way and say that you need to wait until 4 cm and that too is not true. the simple answer is that when to get an epidural is a joint decision between you and the people caring for you. You can of course override everyone one else and get one whenever you want but it can slow things down or in some cases stop them. I usually tell my patient to tell me when they want it and we will talk about it. 99% of the time when patients ask they can have one with little risk of slowing things.


delivering in stirrups - Position for delivery is not (as far as I know) addressed by an ACOG guideline. there are studies showing that lithotomy position is not the best and sometimes harmful. that being said doctors (not midwives or nurses) are trained in school and in residency to assess everything and deliver babies in Lithotomy position. when you are in another position it changes your pelvis and moves the landmarks doctors use to assess your pelvis and the decent of the baby- which can make it harder to anticipate problems or help you not to tear and really to make sure they don't drop the baby when its delivering. I personally hate stir up's i think they are uncomfortable and have known them at times to hurt. it also just makes things seem so cold and a bit scary. I know doctors are comfortable with them because it keeps your pelvis open and your position content allowing them to assess things better. I don’t agree with this item but I understand his motives for writing it. I think sometimes doctors get a bad wrap people assume that they force issues about position / surface only because they prefer it. it is true that the standard position for delivery was developed with more consideration for the doctor then the patient. Doctors however are not forcing a certain position out of selfishness or control issues its because it was the way they were taught and they fear complications in other positions. I have known some that deliver in other positions but they are rare and i assume they how to deliver in other positions threw trial and error you can imagine how scary that is for them though, trial and error with human life..

deliveries only on standard labor and delivery beds- again this goes to this training and abilities to assess/ perform maneuvers to deliver. it is probably safer to do this in the rare case if a complication its allot faster to have people on a bed but most of the time you can anticipate complications (not always) and then say we have to be on the bed. it is pretty easy to move to a bed or out of other positions if need be also it is beneficial for many women to be on another surface or in another position so again well i see his rational i don’t agree with him

episiotomy - i think his explanation of the reason he performs episiotomy and the things he does to avoid it are good but the way he says "at my discretion" worries me honestly necessity of episiotomy is rare and there is no way a patient can judge it for them selves so it does need to be left up to the doctor. So a discussion (before delivery) needs to be had of what his thoughts are on episiotomy, factors he would use in making a decision to cut and what his % of episiotomies is, the fact that he felt the need to spell it out makes me worry about how often he does them. sense he is the one that has to make the decision you have to decide if you agree with his basis for making that decision.

clamping the cord- this one is a hot topic lately. years ago i did a lot of research on this I was able to find some evidence and suggestion within the medical community that this could be beneficial. I was not able to find any studies that set parameters for how long to wait how to assess how much blood the baby was getting or the babies need for additional blood. also there is some risk of the baby getting too much blood. because of this I am not comfortable with letting the cord pulse. I have heard that their are more recent studies suggesting parameters for how long, why and how to do this but i haven’t seem them. also problems i have seen arise from this are patients refusing to let the doctor cut the cord when the baby has thick me conium or other complications needing treatment. even the benefits of delayed cord clamping (which have not been quantified by any study) are over shadowed by the babies need to breath or the risk of me conium aspiration.

C/S non negotiable - umm i really have problems with the finality of his statements anyway unless you have a baby that is in distress, you are bleeding or have some other risk of you or your baby dieing you can take some time to discuss things and make a decision.

It sounds like he has had problems in the past with patients demanding extreme things and possibly having bad outcomes due to those demands (which every practitioner has). He writes this plan to head off problems before they come up. The problem with that is by doing so he has completely removed any room for judgment and gone with an ULTRA safe plan.

I don’t like his plan over all and I think it puts all the power in his hands and that it is too rigid and removes any room for assessment to guide his decisions it also does not allow for your input. that being said I don’t think he is an evil man. I think he wants to be safe and has developed a plan that keeps him legal, following current recommendations and allows him to sleep at night because he is doing everything on the safe side. his plan is the "perfect plan" for the doctor. it will useualy deliver a live baby with minimul risk to his professtional reputaion or pocketbook and with little need for him to use his own assessment or problem solving skills. liek others have said Run for the hills , find someone else but don't tell the guy off or think of him as mean i really think he is trying to be a good doctor and is just a bit misguided
Top

2 Readers Gave Kudos
 
Page 3 of 5 < 12 3 45 >
Reply




Thread Tools


Who's Online
337 members
3,061 guests
3,398

23

lawsuit - But don't most RN's work through breaks/lunch...

0

Patient Evaluation of Retail Clinic Care

2

The hard to reach on-call doctor, and its effects on...

8

Woman charged with passing off prescription drug as...

18

Man in "Vegetative State" was conscious for 23...

2

Interesting article on ThedaCare's Collaborative Care Model

13

Possible breakthrough regarding MS

63

16th Philly area hospital to stop delivering babies: Mercy...

13

Really interesting article on Indian open hearts

10

High-Tech Pump Does What Her Heart Can't



40

Dear preceptor

1

Society Needs Care Too

13

Why am I doing this, anyway?

2

Nurse Heal Thyself

9

My Papa, why I am the nurse I am today.

17

I made it through

11

An angel's gaze

16

A Sister Never Forgets

16

Ruby's Marbles

39

What Do Operating Room Nurses Do?

14

My Little Old Jedi

20

I love this job......

23

"I hear voices"

19

Preventing FRUTI (Foley Related Urinary Tract Infection) in...

24

Error and Attitude





Sponsored Links

Currently Reading This Page: 1 (0 members & 1 guests)

Interested in the hottest topics of the week? Subscribe to the Nurse-zine Newsletter.
Enter email address: