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No. 30
Old Jul 19, 2005, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by onehusbandsevenkids
See...I've heard that the L&D nurses will say that. My question is WHY?
Really, I'd like to know where this thinking comes from....
Because we see it soooo often.
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No. 31
Old Jul 19, 2005, 09:02 PM

[quote=divinegracie]It does seem that the patients with the longest, most detailed birth plan, with the doula, the control freaks, who hate us the minute they walk in the door because they resent the fact their insurance company won't pay for a home birth, are the ones with C-Section stamped right across their foreheads. Dunno if it's karmic retribution, or just a perception we have in L&D. I wonder if anyone's done a retrospective study on patients presenting with birth plans, doulas, &c, and C-Section rate?
QUOTE]

Yes, there have been studies done. Definately lower c-section rates with a doula present. You can find the info by digging around at www.dona.com

I think alot of the "attitude" comes from knowing that many docs, nurses, and hospital protocal do not work in the *true* best interest of the mother and baby.

I wouldn't label a mother a control freak just because she has certain feelings about the way she wants to give birth.
Not all women want to get in there and get their epidural and nod their head willingly to everything a nurse or doc says, and just get the birth over with.
Some women are wanting the experience to be so much more.
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No. 32
Old Jul 19, 2005, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by tamrnmomof4
Because we see it soooo often.
Well, I was hoping for more of a reasoning than that. Thats the only answer I ever hear.

Does the care the woman gets from a prejudiced staff have anything to do with it?
Curious.
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No. 33
from FrumDoula
Old Jul 19, 2005, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by onehusbandsevenkids
Well, I was hoping for more of a reasoning than that. Thats the only answer I ever hear.

Does the care the woman gets from a prejudiced staff have anything to do with it?
Curious.
Yes, I think for some nurses, they react very poorly to patients who want natural childbirth. This attitude is reflected in their care. They'll bad mouth the patient at the nurses station, they won't check on her as much, they won't be as active in offering labor support ideas, etc. They'll many times try and undermine the birth plan, if there is one, by suggesting medication, by saying things like, "Hey, no one gets a reward for natural childbirth." etc. It's terribly disheartening to the patient, who has tried to be informed and could really use a strong ally in the birth room.

I've seen this, and it's been reported to me by L&D nurses themselves. And many of those nurses don't have strong labor support skills because they see so few natural patients that they're at a loss of what to do in the face of a natural birth process - it does tend to be a bit more uncontrolled and intimidating than an epidural birth.

Sometimes it is the dual relationship between the patient and the nurse. The patient comes in loaded for a big fight on interventions, they're incredibly tense and hyper reactive to anything the staff does, even when it's warranted or kind hearted. They refuse to acknowledge the goodness of the staff. That's tough, too. So then the staff gets cranky, and you devolve from there. It's pretty tough to dilate and release to the power of childbirth when you're anxious and worried.

And sometimes it's simply a psycho patient.

I mean, how many of us could walk into a hospital ward and have sex (with orgasm!) in front of a bunch of strangers and bright lights? Well, childbirth is pretty sexual as far as I'm concerned, and some women are very sensitive to this setting, and it's difficult for them to let go. Then you have the other women, who could birth a baby in Times Square. No problems there! Throw in a few obstetric interventions, and you have the makings of a very tough labor and birth.

It's incredibly easy to think it's simply the patients' fault, since they're such control freaks with their 3 page birth plan, birth ball and doula in tow. But it's usually a give and take, and the staff contributes to the failure to progress through their lack of understanding or sheer callousness. Sucks.

Unless, of course, you have SmilingBlueEyes for your RN. And then you're golden. And for the other nurses I've encountered who were either totally awesome and supportive or so professional that they wouldn't let their personal feelings color their support for the Mom. Now THOSE are super nurses!

Alison
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No. 34
from chicagrl72
Old Jul 19, 2005, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by FrumDoula
Yes, I think for some nurses, they react very poorly to patients who want natural childbirth. This attitude is reflected in their care. They'll bad mouth the patient at the nurses station, they won't check on her as much, they won't be as active in offering labor support ideas, etc. They'll many times try and undermine the birth plan, if there is one, by suggesting medication, by saying things like, "Hey, no one gets a reward for natural childbirth." etc. It's terribly disheartening to the patient, who has tried to be informed and could really use a strong ally in the birth room.

I've seen this, and it's been reported to me by L&D nurses themselves. And many of those nurses don't have strong labor support skills because they see so few natural patients that they're at a loss of what to do in the face of a natural birth process - it does tend to be a bit more uncontrolled and intimidating than an epidural birth.

Sometimes it is the dual relationship between the patient and the nurse. The patient comes in loaded for a big fight on interventions, they're incredibly tense and hyper reactive to anything the staff does, even when it's warranted or kind hearted. They refuse to acknowledge the goodness of the staff. That's tough, too. So then the staff gets cranky, and you devolve from there. It's pretty tough to dilate and release to the power of childbirth when you're anxious and worried.

And sometimes it's simply a psycho patient.

I mean, how many of us could walk into a hospital ward and have sex (with orgasm!) in front of a bunch of strangers and bright lights? Well, childbirth is pretty sexual as far as I'm concerned, and some women are very sensitive to this setting, and it's difficult for them to let go. Then you have the other women, who could birth a baby in Times Square. No problems there! Throw in a few obstetric interventions, and you have the makings of a very tough labor and birth.

It's incredibly easy to think it's simply the patients' fault, since they're such control freaks with their 3 page birth plan, birth ball and doula in tow. But it's usually a give and take, and the staff contributes to the failure to progress through their lack of understanding or sheer callousness. Sucks.

Unless, of course, you have SmilingBlueEyes for your RN. And then you're golden. And for the other nurses I've encountered who were either totally awesome and supportive or so professional that they wouldn't let their personal feelings color their support for the Mom. Now THOSE are super nurses!

Alison
too bad we were not birthing with you !
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No. 35
from FrumDoula
Old Jul 20, 2005, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by chicagrl72
too bad we were not birthing with you !
That is so sweet to hear. Still, I'm only a doula. For true L&D heros, please refer to the nurses who lay their butts on the line each and every day to advocate for their patients!
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No. 36
Old Jul 20, 2005, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by HeartsOpenWide
It seems like there are so many different meanings to different people for "Natural Birth"
What do you consider "Natural Birth"? When a patient comes into your hospital wanting the most "Natural Birth" possible, what can she expect?
To me "natural" birth means no pain medication!
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No. 37
from RNKitty
Old Jul 20, 2005, 02:20 AM

A midwife I used to work with would console her patients if they were feeling guilty about taking pain medicine by saying "going natural is doing it without makeup".

I really do like to give natural labor support, but at my current hospital I cannot make myself indespensible in the room. It is much better for the patient if I can teach her support people how to doula for her. We actually get in trouble by our charge nurses if we are hidden in the room for hours without being aware of what is happening on the floor. Many times we will have two patients, or be asked to evaluate an outpatient or backup a delivery for Neonatal Resus. We all have to work as a team, and it is too disruptive for the patient if her doula/nurse keeps running in and out of the room. Many of us feel that there are much better ways to deliver, but we are powerless to effect change in policy/staffing within our institution. And, in all honesty, if the woman is low risk and going natural it is much less work for me. I monitor intermittently and encourage walking and jacoussi. Win win.
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No. 38
from tntrn
Old Jul 20, 2005, 09:11 AM

I an old-timer and think that as in much of the medical field, what's common practice is very regional. For example, I used to work in a high-risk hospital, doing 300 births a month, and we NEVER, I repeat, NEVER did epidurals. Our patients were very well prepared to go natural and many felt guilty if they took a little Nisentil (told you I was an old-timer.) Moved up the coast and on my first day at there, watched (in horror) as a saddle block was put in on a crowning multip. Came home and told my DH I had to find another line of work.

After 16 years here, I find that epidurals are the expected, to the point, that some patients are brainwashed into thinking they will "need" one. I respect their choice to have one, but I have to say that I don't honestly believe they are being given a full disclosure of what the choices are.

We are still lucky to have 1 to 1 care on our labor patients, but once that epidural goes in, there not a lot of nursing support to be done anymore. The patient is either sleeping soundly, or partying with the room full of visitors. I groove on the gal who comes in at 7 or 8 cms. or the one who goes without by choice.

I agree with whoever said that some nurses are uncomfortable with the naturally laboring patient, but I believe that is mostly because they haven't had the experience to get comfortable with it. Interesting, because one of those young things told me that us "old broads" weren't comfortable with interventive births. I think she had it only partly right: we're uncomfortable with it because we know it could be different and safe and satisfying without all of that. And because we've been there, done that and don't necessarily think that it's better the way it is now.

As a labor nurse of some 29 years now, know that my most satisfying and gratifying days at work come after one of our rare no meds, or at least no epidural labors. THAT's when my labor nursing and support skills are utililized the most. Just watching monitors and adjusting IV rates doesn't cut it. Must be done, but really, how satisfying is that?
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No. 39
from RNKitty
Old Jul 20, 2005, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by tntrn
my most satisfying and gratifying days at work come after one of our rare no meds, or at least no epidural labors. THAT's when my labor nursing and support skills are utililized the most. Just watching monitors and adjusting IV rates doesn't cut it. Must be done, but really, how satisfying is that?
How true! I always get the comments that my job must be "so rewarding". Right now, I think of it as stressful, full of liability, and frustrating that things could be different. I did do a delivery 3 months ago that was awesome (her 13th, all natural, 3 women offering great doula support). I thought, "Yeah, that is how women need to care for women". It really bugs me to care for women in labor when all the visitors are watching "Survivor" and I just do paperwork and tinker with meds.
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