That spelled badly, contravesial thread about NA's...

ayemmeff · Jan 30, 2003

Originally posted by CliveUK
What I actually said was that the staff nurses I worked with didn't busy themselves with drug rounds and IVs to the detriment of 'basic nursing care'. By which I meant they did the 'basics' AND the drug rounds and IVs and yadda yadda. What I was suggesting was that perhaps SOME RNs busy themselves with these things because SOME RNs think 'basic care' is beneath them.

Please note the use of the word SOME before you leap down my throat again.

What you actually said is quoted by me, at the top of my previous post.I see no mention at all of the word some any where in it.

tattooednursie, LVN · Jan 31, 2003

Ayemmef, dear one, I think you are jumping to conclusions. i understand that starting IV's and pushing meds is part of your job. I'm going to say this as nice as I can. What would your job be like without CNA's? Huh? Think about it. in adition to all the nursley stuff, you would have to give showers, you would have to put patients to bed, get them up, do their vitals, feed them . . . and oh!! God forbid! Answering call lights! Aides do so much for nurses, and SOME nurses NOT ALL OF THEM, won't even answer a call light to help her aide who is maybe busying herself with another call light!

Some people may be different in person than they are on the boared. I am being non-judgmental here, and approaching this thread with an open mind. I am just simply saying that as much as aides help you out, you could help them from time to time.

I feel that a good nurse takes care of things, whether really basic, or complex, even if that does mean changing a bed pan. Oh puhlease! I think some nurses are like scared of poop, like it might eat them alive or something!

fab4fan · Jan 31, 2003

Good grief...there are good nurses, there are bad nurses, there are good aides, there are bad aides. Rarely do I have time to help an aide...we are so understaffed that I have trouble getting my own work done. An aide can't help me give meds, start IV's, chart, so yeah, I do expect that they will do the tasks on their job description. IF I have time and I see an aide that needs help, I will help, gladly. But unlike the aides, in my dept. new pts have to be seen by a nurse in 15 mins, so I'm operating under a time constraint, the aides are not. Time management comes into play here; though I'd like to help, most of the time it is just not possible.

And when the aides always have time for smoke breaks, dinner, can get out on time, then I'm going to keep moving with what I have to do, with no break, and no dinner, getting out late.

This is the reality of nursing. If being an aide is overwhelming, then perhaps being an RN isn't the right profession for that aide. It only gets harder, not easier, with a license.

Nurses afraid of poop...give me a break!! :rolleyes:

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Jan 31, 2003

Originally posted by fab4fan
Good grief...there are good nurses, there are bad nurses, there are good aides, there are bad aides. Rarely do I have time to help an aide...we are so understaffed that I have trouble getting my own work done. An aide can't help me give meds, start IV's, chart, so yeah, I do expect that they will do the tasks on their job description. IF I have time and I see an aide that needs help, I will help, gladly. But unlike the aides, in my dept. new pts have to be seen by a nurse in 15 mins, so I'm operating under a time constraint, the aides are not. Time management comes into play here; though I'd like to help, most of the time it is just not possible.

And when the aides always have time for smoke breaks, dinner, can get out on time, then I'm going to keep moving with what I have to do, with no break, and no dinner, getting out late.

This is the reality of nursing. If being an aide is overwhelming, then perhaps being an RN isn't the right profession for that aide. It only gets harder, not easier, with a license.

Nurses afraid of poop...give me a break!!

I quoted fab4fan's entire post, because it is exactly how I feel.

I have been a CNA. Being a nurse IS harder, and you have tons more work and RESPONSIBILITY than an aide does.

If you continue on to nursing school, you'll find out. The hard way.

l.rae · Jan 31, 2003

Originally posted by CliveUK
I am an RMN, who trained originally as an RGN way back in the 80s. Back then, staff nurses didn't busy themselves with drug rounds and IVs and what have you to the detriment of basic nursing care. What has happened that RNs see themselves as "above" helping out with bed baths and catheter-emptying? I can't believe the wards have changed that much since 1989 (the last time I stepped onto a general ward), but maybe they have and I am wrong.

. /B]

Meds and IV's are NOT basic nursing care?????...certainly news to me.....my pts will not die without a bath, they may die without their meds and IV therapy....it's called prioritising...interesting concept it is.....l will help out any time l can,,,but l will NOT give a bed bath or do any other duty that is capable of being done by NA when my pts need meds, Iv's and treatments the NA cannot assist with.......sorry.....LR

CliveUK · Jan 31, 2003

My throat is jammed with people who have jumped to conclusions...help...can't breathe.

I have been an NA on a surgical ward, an RGN student, a D and an E grade on elderly wards, an RMN student and a D, E, F and now G grade on acute adult psychiatry. You could say I have been on most sides of this particular argument.

Of course, I have no problem with RNs doing IVs and medications - it would be stupid of me to take that stance - and yes, mea culpa, I missed the word "some" out of my original post. But what does strike me is that some of the newer RNs do seem to think that 'basic' nursing tasks such as bed-baths and bum-wiping are somehow not their domain any more. And I'll ask it again - how has this happened? When did the priorities change that - better qualify it here - for some RNs, technical aspects of care take precedence over the nitty gritty of nursing?

KC CHICK · Jan 31, 2003

I agree with l.rae. Sometimes I think our actions as RNs are interpreted as 'rude' when we don't do some of the care that you discussed, Clive. However, we do have a lot on our plate during our 12 hour shifts. We HAVE TO PRIORITIZE AND DELEGATE. If that means telling the aid that 'so and so' needs to be cleaned up, as we're dashing down the hall with a cupfull of meds, so be it.

I've had a similar discussion with more seasoned RNs on my unit. They remember when nursing wasn't as technical as it is now. There is a lot more expected out of RNs today. Maybe that's why there's little time to perform the "nitty gritty" functions that they used to do all the time.

And no, new RNs are not afraid of a little pooh. Why, just last weekend, I had the pleasure of performing a rectal disimpaction on one of my patients while a collegue of mine had to reinsert a rectal prolapse on one of her patients. Yummy. Don't know why....it was truely a BUM night.

Anyhoo, I certainly help out when I can. The aides...wonderful beings that they are...usually tell me that they don't need my help and to go do what I need to do for my other patients. I love those gals!!!

Anne:nurse:

karenG · Jan 31, 2003

dare I say it but I agree with some of Clives comments- I do think that the basic nursing care gets forgotten and some of the newly qualified staff think it is not part of their remit! I think that the training is at fault. at the end of the day, we are there to deliver patient care- all aspects and we should be taking the holistic approach. ok, some of it is task led(I trained in the day of the back round!) but it all needs to be done and does it matter who does what? some bits of my job I would not delegate to junior staff but equally, I could do their jobs if push came to shove and I would! we have staffing level problems which means that we cant be interchangable- I remember when a ward would have 2 sisters, 10 staff nurses and 20 or so students- luxury these days. maybe its that we need to address rather than being territorial and defensive. its about caring for people......and that includes each other!!!

karen

ayemmeff · Jan 31, 2003

Originally posted by FutureRN_Mandi
Ayemmef, dear one, I think you are jumping to conclusions. i understand that starting IV's and pushing meds is part of your job. I'm going to say this as nice as I can. What would your job be like without CNA's? Huh? Think about it. in adition to all the nursley stuff, you would have to give showers, you would have to put patients to bed, get them up, do their vitals, feed them . . . and oh!! God forbid! Answering call lights! Aides do so much for nurses, and SOME nurses NOT ALL OF THEM, won't even answer a call light to help her aide who is maybe busying herself with another call light!

Sorry,Mandi,but do you know me?Work with me? No? Thought not.Therefore I am not your "dear one".I will not be patronised by you, Mandi.

Who's saying anything about doing my job without H.C.S.W.s(CNAs)I didn't. I'm well aware that I couldn't do my job day in and day out without them.However,I do sometimes have to work shifts without them,and do you know what? The patients are still clean,fed and comfortable at the end of the shift.

What would your job be like without RNs?Huh?Think about it. Answer? Non-existant,there would be no patients left alive.

silvermoon · Jan 31, 2003

Now I've had sleep I can write with less vent and reading this thread highlights the attitude I got from the RN. I only wanted a hand to roll a patient onto a clean sheet and just got the brush off.

I've worked on other wards where the nursing staff are fabulous and we all work as a team to get the work done. As a student we sometimes learn as much through bad practice as good. And thankfully I have had lots of great examples.

ayemmeff · Jan 31, 2003

edited for the third time to say: Nothing,I changed my mind!

mageean · Jan 31, 2003

Some strong views here. Despite the fact that my current post is as a Service manager, I like Clive worked at all levels from A grade to my current position and always felt part of a nursing team. As a Charge Nurse I would NEVER ask/expect anyone to do something I would'nt do myself. Registered Nurses should work alongside n/a's and act as role models.

I increasingly feel that the shift in Training (from hospital based to Collage) has had an impact on peoples perceptions. There are a lot of people working in nursing who do not have Diploma/Degree status and it does not make them less valuable. Please value people for what they are and the contribution they make and pay less attention to status. having said that, RN's, be proud of your Registration!