That spelled badly, contravesial thread about NA's... - page 3

Hmmmm, thinking hat on now... Factoids (being poorly contructed facts) -Nursing = what nurses do = The provision of care -Care requirements have difrent componencts (say IVI's and bed... Read More

  1. by   CliveUK
    I am an RMN, who trained originally as an RGN way back in the 80s. Back then, staff nurses didn't busy themselves with drug rounds and IVs and what have you to the detriment of basic nursing care. What has happened that RNs see themselves as "above" helping out with bed baths and catheter-emptying? I can't believe the wards have changed that much since 1989 (the last time I stepped onto a general ward), but maybe they have and I am wrong.

    I am a G-grade, but my motto is if there's a job that needs doing, and you have the time and the capability to do it, then it is YOUR job, no-one else's. The best thing one of our E-grades said to me was "No job is beneath you, is it?"

    I heard tell of a staff nurse in one of our wards who refused point-blank to clean up urine!! It's this "it's not my job" attitude that causes so much friction between different grades.
  2. by   donmurray
    Ditto, Clive. Whatever happened to "You found it, you fix it!"
  3. by   tony summers
    this type of mentality seems to be missing from alot of newly qualified staff. Surely it is also just common decency to refill something when you use the last one and not leave it for someone else to do. If you find the problem you should fix it not ignore and pass the buck.

    Gaining the respect of fellow team members is very important the higher that you go up the ladder. You should lead by example and by following common curteousy you get a smoother running team.
  4. by   CliveUK
    I've certainly noticed a sort of syndrome among a certain kind of newly-qualified nurse that as soon as that RN appears next to their names, they seem to want nothing more to do with the nitty-gritty of nursing, preferring to hang out with the doctors and do o so important things like answering telephones and scribbling on pieces of paper and walking round, looking important and bossing more junior staff about.

    We used to call it staffnurseitis, and it seems almost epidemic these days.
  5. by   tattooednursie
    Nothing gripes me more than a nurse saying "No I won't help you, that's a CNA's job." GRRRRRRRRRRRR. I should just say to her next time, "No, I won't help you, thats a nurses job!"
  6. by   BritishStudent
    Originally posted by tony summers
    this type of mentality seems to be missing from alot of newly qualified staff.
    Not sure I agree with that necciccerily, in my, limited experiance from difrent trusts its less the new or old, but the ones who arnt happy in their jobs, either as nurses, in their proffesions or what ever, not the so called 'burnouts' beacuse their great still, they just seem to go about work with a tired and cynical gusto....

    Maybe?


    (by the way, now training in your trust )
  7. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    Originally posted by tony summers
    at the end of the day the trained members of staff need to be aware of everything that is happening in their areas because they are the ones whose head will roll if the s*** hits the fan.

    It not tribalism that makes RN want the term nurse to be protected, it about demonstrating to the public that a nurse is someone who has achieved a certain standard and is capable of mataining that standard and if thing do go wrong their a recognisable body people their that will take the wrong doer to task. Whereas with the 'NAs' at the moment there is no such body and if they do something wrong they often only get slap on the wrist, (occassionally they will lose their job), whereas the RN might not only lose their job but their whole career.

    Nursing is about caring for patients and having the guts to undertake a qualification that states that you not only will care for a patient but are prepared to take full professional responsiblity for that person whilst they are in your care. 'NAs' have no underataking, most are only to do their job and leave.
    Yes, exactly!

    Wow, I'm finding this thread so distressing.

    I was a CNA for over 2 years, an LPN for 8 years and have been an RN for 3 years. I am in The US, not the UK.


    I WISH I could do bed baths and personal care, things that some may consider "NA work". Those task are my favorite nursing tasks to do. I feel they do more for a pts feelings of well-being and comfort than most drugs or treatments could.

    I really miss being able to do those things.

    Paperwork is no fun. The amount of it is overwhelming. I do not consider paperwork to be nursing. And sitting around talking to docs? My goodness, most docs are so arrogent and abusive, I avoid them as much as I can!

    When I was an NA, I worked agency. So, I worked w/ many different nurses in many different types of facilities.

    Not once was I ever treated badly by a nurse. They were grateful for my help and we always worked together as a team!


    Most nurses do not feel that they are "above" what could be considered "NA work". They just don't have time to do it! You can't say to an NA: "I'll clean up this BM, and take this other pt to the bathroom. Can you run and pass a few meds for me, and do some charting so I don't fall behind on that, because I'm busy doing this"?

    I've never seen an NA have to stay over after shift to get paperwork done, NAs go home on time. But, nurses have to stay over (and forgo breaks) routinely.

    Personally, I don't mind wiping butts, cleaning up urine, etc. Been doing it for years, no problem. I'd much rather clean up urine than do a bunch of time consuming, meaningless paper-work!

    As for team-work, if you don't have it the pts and staff will suffer.

    I have changed shifts and left jobs before just because terrible NAs. There is a problem (especially in LTC) with many NAs thinking they run the place, being overly aggressive, refusing to do what is asked of them, and being verbally abusive to nurses.

    Whenever I have worked with an excellent NA, I am very appreciative and I show it, with frequent thanks, praise and little gifts I've bought for CNAs (nice pens, pins that say CNA, lunches, candy, etc).

    Unfortunately (for me, not for them), when I've worked with a wonderful CNA, the arrangement doesn't last very long, as these CNAs usually go on to become nurses or leave the field altogether.

    I have worked in a facility (inpt hospice) that was staffed with all nurses, no CNAs. This was done because of so many problems with aggressive, inappropriate CNAs who refused to do what was asked of them, lied and said they did pt care that they did not do, and were found sleeping in pt rooms, going outside to smoke constantly, etc.
    Frankly, it was a big relief to be rid of them and pt care really improved.

    When a CNA was finally hired, she was FANTASTIC, THE BEST. I wrote a letter in praise of her, asked all the nurses to sign it, and we got it printed in the company newsletter. We were so grateful for her, we just fawned all over her.

    When I've had exceptional CNAs, other CNAs have sometimes treated them badly, and looked down on them. They were considered to be "kissing the nurse's a$$. This was not the case at all. They were working with me as a team, and it was wonderful!

    And... as stated before, when I was a CNA, I did not consider myself to be a nurse, and I WAS NOT a nurse.
    CNAs are not nurses, just as paralegals are not lawyers, security guards are not cops, and physician assistants are not doctors.
    Last edit by Hellllllo Nurse on Jan 30, '03
  8. by   ayemmeff
    Originally posted by CliveUK
    I am an RMN, who trained originally as an RGN way back in the 80s. Back then, staff nurses didn't busy themselves with drug rounds and IVs and what have you to the detriment of basic nursing care. What has happened that RNs see themselves as "above" helping out with bed baths and catheter-emptying? I can't believe the wards have changed that much since 1989 (the last time I stepped onto a general ward), but maybe they have and I am wrong.
    Yes,I'm sorry, but you are!!!!I certainly don't "busy myself" with "drug rounds and IVs and what have you"....It's my job!!!!!! Who do you suggest I ask to do them? A domestic?

    Apologies to whoever said I took things personally,bloody tough, thats me,and I do!

    Wish I could be as eloquent as HellllloNurse,some of these posts have enfuriated and disgusted me.

    Teamwork? Not with RN's being resented for doing their job!!!
  9. by   CliveUK
    Erm - ayemmeff, please remove yourself from my throat.

    What I actually said was that the staff nurses I worked with didn't busy themselves with drug rounds and IVs to the detriment of 'basic nursing care'. By which I meant they did the 'basics' AND the drug rounds and IVs and yadda yadda. What I was suggesting was that perhaps SOME RNs busy themselves with these things because SOME RNs think 'basic care' is beneath them.

    Please note the use of the word SOME before you leap down my throat again.

    Talk about defensive!

    We should value everyone's contribution to health care - from the consultant surgeon to the domestic to the NA to the RN etc. etc.
  10. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    I find this whole thread very saddening. Just shows we have a hell of a looooong way to go.

    Here is a poem I found on another site a long time ago. I saved it because it addresses so well the problems between nurse, aides, etc.


    Rebadee, who originally posted this poem on the AOL LPN message board, says, "The original, that was about black not liking white and vice versa, and rich not liking poor, one religion not liking another etc., was an old poem from the early 60s, I believe, and the author was 'unknown'. I changed it up to fit the nursing arguments that have been appearing on the boards. I can't take credit for the overall theme of the poem."


    *SEVEN NURSES*

    contributed by Rebadee

    Seven nurses trapped by happenstance
    In the dark and bitter cold.
    Each one possessed a stick of wood,
    Or so the story's told.

    Their dying fire in need of logs,
    The first nurse held hers tight.
    For on the faces around the fire,
    Was "that's a nurse who works at night. "

    The night nurse looking cross the way,
    Saw one not of her shift,
    And wouldn't give her stick of wood
    To give the fire a lift.

    The third nurse noticed in the group
    One that wanted to unionize,
    "Why should I use my stick of wood
    To warm someone I despise?"

    The management nurse sat in deep thought,
    (Her mind not on the fire)
    Of ways to stretch this small staff
    Without having to hire.

    The floor nurse's face bespoke revenge
    as the fire passed from sight,
    For all she saw in her stick of wood
    Was a chance for spite tonight.

    The nurse with the BSN sat and watched
    As the fire began to dim.
    "My degree is more important than his
    I'll put mine in after him."

    The last nurse of this forlorn group
    Did naught except for gain
    Giving only to those who gave
    Was how he played the game.

    The logs held tight in death's still hands
    Was proof of how we sin.
    They didn't die from the cold without,
    They died from--THE COLD WITHIN.
  11. by   ayemmeff
    Originally posted by CliveUK
    What I actually said was that the staff nurses I worked with didn't busy themselves with drug rounds and IVs to the detriment of 'basic nursing care'. By which I meant they did the 'basics' AND the drug rounds and IVs and yadda yadda. What I was suggesting was that perhaps SOME RNs busy themselves with these things because SOME RNs think 'basic care' is beneath them.

    Please note the use of the word SOME before you leap down my throat again.

    What you actually said is quoted by me, at the top of my previous post.I see no mention at all of the word some any where in it.
  12. by   tattooednursie
    Ayemmef, dear one, I think you are jumping to conclusions. i understand that starting IV's and pushing meds is part of your job. I'm going to say this as nice as I can. What would your job be like without CNA's? Huh? Think about it. in adition to all the nursley stuff, you would have to give showers, you would have to put patients to bed, get them up, do their vitals, feed them . . . and oh!! God forbid! Answering call lights! Aides do so much for nurses, and SOME nurses NOT ALL OF THEM, won't even answer a call light to help her aide who is maybe busying herself with another call light!

    Some people may be different in person than they are on the boared. I am being non-judgmental here, and approaching this thread with an open mind. I am just simply saying that as much as aides help you out, you could help them from time to time.

    I feel that a good nurse takes care of things, whether really basic, or complex, even if that does mean changing a bed pan. Oh puhlease! I think some nurses are like scared of poop, like it might eat them alive or something!
  13. by   fab4fan
    Good grief...there are good nurses, there are bad nurses, there are good aides, there are bad aides. Rarely do I have time to help an aide...we are so understaffed that I have trouble getting my own work done. An aide can't help me give meds, start IV's, chart, so yeah, I do expect that they will do the tasks on their job description. IF I have time and I see an aide that needs help, I will help, gladly. But unlike the aides, in my dept. new pts have to be seen by a nurse in 15 mins, so I'm operating under a time constraint, the aides are not. Time management comes into play here; though I'd like to help, most of the time it is just not possible.

    And when the aides always have time for smoke breaks, dinner, can get out on time, then I'm going to keep moving with what I have to do, with no break, and no dinner, getting out late.

    This is the reality of nursing. If being an aide is overwhelming, then perhaps being an RN isn't the right profession for that aide. It only gets harder, not easier, with a license.

    Nurses afraid of poop...give me a break!!

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