Are nurses being imported to the UK?

Silverdragon102, BSN · Oct 14, 2013

I have heard of some hospitals going to Spain for nurses but not sure how reliable that is, was just documented on the BBC news website. Pay will be the same regardless on where they are from as the NHS follows a banding payscale

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Oct 15, 2013

I realize the pain is the same, but it changes the whole supply and demand , no need to raise nursing salieries when you have eager supply willing to work .

Silverdragon102, BSN · Oct 15, 2013

Currently the government is talking about not giving the NHS the annual pay-rise and I would image that would be giving many nurses reasons to be leaving.

ceridwyn · Oct 15, 2013

This reasoning of no need to pay rise if there are others ready and willing to work for whatever they can get does not seem to work in Australia. Seems the nurses union is worth the $600 yearly. There is more than enough willing and eager to work anytime, anywhere from overseas into Australia for whatever, as long as sponsorship or pr visa is offered, but somehow Australian nurses still get paid okay, with yearly rises and jobs are getting harder to get by the minute.

We also have a national health care scheme, free healthcare along with private have for many, many years. Time will tell I suppose

skylark, BSN, RN · Oct 17, 2013

I know of hospitals who actively recruit from Philippines, India and Portugal. They either send someone there or use a local agency to interview via skype. When I work in London, most of my coworkers describe being recruited like this.

Gem1210390 · Oct 20, 2013

Speaking to the assistant director of nursing in my hospital and she confirmed the hospital is going abroad to recruit nurses because we are not getting the number through university to fill open positions. This is also due to the government reducing training numbers by thousands over the last few years

skylark, BSN, RN · Oct 21, 2013

Speaking to the assistant director of nursing in my hospital and she confirmed the hospital is going abroad to recruit nurses because we are not getting the number through university to fill open positions. This is also due to the government reducing training numbers by thousands over the last few years

I find that hard to believe.

When my London ER advertized ten band 5 posts about a year ago there were over 300 applicants.

They recruited their ten nurses easily, but perhaps what was more significant was that all ten were foreign trained.

I've been criticized on this forum before for saying this, but i still believe that UK nurse training is poor when compared to foreign training.

If I have a choice, I will choose to work with a foreign nurse every time, they are just more proficient that their UK trained counterparts.

We regularly have third year students with us, and its sad to see their lack of knowledge and skills at this late stage.

I don't believe its the number going through university that is the issue, more that they are simply not fit for purpose at the end of their course.

Gem1210390 · Oct 21, 2013

I find that hard to believe. When my London ER advertized ten band 5 posts about a year ago there were over 300 applicants. They recruited their ten nurses easily but perhaps what was more significant was that all ten were foreign trained. I've been criticized on this forum before for saying this, but i still believe that UK nurse training is poor when compared to foreign training. If I have a choice, I will choose to work with a foreign nurse every time, they are just more proficient that their UK trained counterparts. We regularly have third year students with us, and its sad to see their lack of knowledge and skills at this late stage. I don't believe its the number going through university that is the issue, more that they are simply not fit for purpose at the end of their course.[/quote']
I am only posting what I was advised. We put jobs out where I work and find it really difficult to feel the positions. I get what you are saying that sometimes the students that are coming out are not the best. They take over year to train to the standard required on the unit without support (critical care area). I have got to say that they are not all like this and some are really good. Equally I work with people that have been trained for many years and things are questionable.
When I went through training the education was really good. I do question students now on basic a&p and they often are unable to answer questions. The nmc need to audit what the students are learning more closely.

skylark, BSN, RN · Oct 21, 2013

Equally I work with people that have been trained for many years and things are questionable.
When I went through training the education was really good. I do question students now on basic a&p and they often are unable to answer questions. The nmc need to audit what the students are learning more closely.

I understand about the 'old-school' nurses too!

CPD was supposed to address many of the issues of the "we've always done it this way", and keep practice current and evidence-based, but that can be a real challenge sometimes to move things on!

Wound management is an area that springs to mind, there are many examples of poor practice out there, (in both UK and US), that it saddens me to see so many patients receiving less than optimal care.

Gem1210390 · Oct 21, 2013

I understand about the 'old-school' nurses too! CPD was supposed to address many of the issues of the "we've always done it this way" and keep practice current and evidence-based, but that can be a real challenge sometimes to move things on! Wound management is an area that springs to mind, there are many examples of poor practice out there, (in both UK and US), that it saddens me to see so many patients receiving less than optimal care.[/quote']
We still get the "this is the way we have always done it". We get a lot of drugs not given because they even document didn't give them because of work load and they didn't have the time. I don't know if it is just me but I like to stay on until my job is complete. I would never miss drugs but it is just accepted practice to miss them or give late and get them re prescribed.
I have considered leaving nursing recently for the reason of the care not being at the level I feel it should be given. This is following both my own experience being a nurse in the nhs and also care a family member received in my current work place that was a disgrace.

skylark, BSN, RN · Oct 21, 2013

We still get the "this is the way we have always done it". We get a lot of drugs not given because they even document didn't give them because of work load and they didn't have the time. I don't know if it is just me but I like to stay on until my job is complete. I would never miss drugs but it is just accepted practice to miss them or give late and get them re prescribed.
I have considered leaving nursing recently for the reason of the care not being at the level I feel it should be given. This is following both my own experience being a nurse in the nhs and also care a family member received in my current work place that was a disgrace.

Those are issues that need to be addressed by going further up the food chain. Either there genuinely isn't enough time, (in which case managers need to address staffing issues), or there is a culture of neglect that needs to be recognised and tackled fast.

Either way it will require some form of audit for non-given meds, and specifics as why there were not given. Just telling a boss that Nurse A didnt give meds properly will not give managers the evidence they need to bring about change.

And yes it could get unpleasant, so maybe find an ally first, and be prepared for some hostility.

Encourage patients and families to complain via PALS, because once managers have to answer written complaints, things tend to get done : )