mother dies after refusing blood transfusion - page 7

A very sad story from England.... Read More

  1. by   angel wifey
    [FONT=Fixedsys]My boyfriend's grandma is a JW. Back then, her son was in dire need of
    BT so eventhough faith was important to her, still, she gladly gave her blood to her son.. I think she just felt that saving her son's life was far worth important than religion.
    so there..
  2. by   WindyhillBSN
    Quote from GusgirlRN
    I just wish I could have a jehova's witness explain to me why they don't accept blood. What is the biblical reference? I think they use the same bible most christians do, don't they? I wish I knew more about JW so I could see it from their point of view. If I understood their point, it would be easier to accept.
    The belief is based on many scriptures, but this one jumps out in my mind....Acts 15:20
    "but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood."
    The scripture says abstain so Jehovah's Witnessess consider having blood put in your veins not to be abstaining. For example... if the physician said abstain from alcohol....putting it in your veins wouldn't be abstaining. This is why Jehovah's Witnesses say no to blood.
  3. by   txpixiedust
    [I think she just felt that saving her son's life was far worth important than religion.
    so there..]

    I'm not a JW (I'm a Christian), but I think that was tacky at best.

    I bet if you asked your boyfriends grandmother, she probably suffers from a lot of guilt over that, and probably feels as if she's sinned. But as a mother, she took that upon herself willingly. And maybe she's just fine with her decision, and if so that's great.

    But to say that her son's life was {worth far more} than religion is judgemental. We can't know how she or any other JW's (or any other person of faith) faith is like - we can only imagine based on our life, our faith, etc.


    Matthew 10:39 (American Standard Version) , says "He that findeth his life shall lose it; and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. " It's not easy to have a strong faith - especially when others don't understand it & you're willing to die because of it.

    God Bless,
    txpixiedust
    Last edit by txpixiedust on Nov 15, '07 : Reason: error.
  4. by   WindyhillBSN
    Quote from Mexarican
    yea this all sounds good! let's give her blood so you, the medical staff don't have to feel bad about her dying. Please let us spare you your grief!?!? Get over yourselves....you chose your path when you attended nursing school!:angryfire Our job and mission is caring for the patient and sometimes that is in a dignified death, from their perspective, not yours! No one said it would be easy...Nursing was never presented to you as easy, not before nursing school, not during, and not after!

    Mex
    Don't pay them any attention. You don't sound bitter.
  5. by   WindyhillBSN
    Quote from RN1980
    nope, but i can guarantee i'd bust my ass to save her life so she could see her childs first b-day, and i could goto bed at night without knowing i had to stand by with my hands in my pocket and say "well you know it's her right" yea, well it does'nt change the fact that a woman died and i'm glad i was'nt there.
    Many sound as if blood transfusions are the best and only choice for low hct, hgb, platelet count whatever, and that everybody does so good with it, nobody dies from complications of it, and without it you automatically die. I think people feel so strongly about this b/c this is what we were taught in nursing school (not overlooking the new orphans just solely talking about the tx of blood trans.) I say nursing school b/c there are surgeons who have been taught how to do bloodless surgeries worldwide, and not just for JW'S. Who knows 15-20 years from now there maybe so many newly discovered diseases that no one will want it......
    Last edit by WindyhillBSN on Nov 15, '07
  6. by   FireStarterRN
    Quote from WindyHill
    Many sound as if blood transfusions are the best and only choice for low hct, hgb, platelet count whatever, and that everybody does so good with it, nobody dies from complications of it, and without it you automatically die. I think people feel so strongly about this b/c this is what we were taught in nursing school (not overlooking the new orphans just solely talking about the tx of blood trans.) I say nursing school b/c there are surgeons who have been taught how to do bloodless surgeries worldwide, and not just for JW'S. Who knows 15-20 years from now there maybe so many newly discovered diseases that no one will want it......
    Now this is an interesting and salient point. Why wasn't the blood of this mother recycled, such as using the hemovac system or other recycling system? Autotransfusion is a fairly simple process. Why wasn't the hospital prepared for this when they had a JW mother and hemorrhage is a lifethreatening emergency after delivery?

    Maybe the hospital in question needs to look at what they can do to accomodate these patients instead of pointing fingers of blame like this!
  7. by   cmo421
    Quote from jlsRN
    Now this is an interesting and salient point. Why wasn't the blood of this mother recycled, such as using the hemovac system or other recycling system? Autotransfusion is a fairly simple process. Why wasn't the hospital prepared for this when they had a JW mother and hemorrhage is a lifethreatening emergency after delivery?

    Maybe the hospital in question needs to look at what they can do to accomodate these patients instead of pointing fingers of blame like this!
    We have tried that in the past , it is not usually a rapid enough fix when there is a large,continuous blood loss occurring. It can help,but rarely enough.
  8. by   HillaryC
    Quote from jlsRN
    Now this is an interesting and salient point. Why wasn't the blood of this mother recycled, such as using the hemovac system or other recycling system? Autotransfusion is a fairly simple process. Why wasn't the hospital prepared for this when they had a JW mother and hemorrhage is a life threatening emergency after delivery?

    Maybe the hospital in question needs to look at what they can do to accommodate these patients instead of pointing fingers of blame like this!
    Some patients will refuse their own blood even if it's given via a cell saver. The way it's been explained to me is that once the blood is not in continuous contact with the body it can't be returned. For example, if you are drawing labs and disconnect the waste syringe for even just a second, you can't reconnect and return the waste. My understanding is that at least one way of returning the patient's blood involves blood from the surgical site going through the cell saver and put in a bag, which is then spiked and infused like any other product. In this example, the blood does not stay in continuous contact with the body, so many JW patients would not consent to this.
  9. by   RainDreamer
    Quote from txpixiedust
    [I think she just felt that saving her son's life was far worth important than religion.
    so there..]

    I'm not a JW (I'm a Christian), but I think that was tacky at best.
    I totally agree. "So there"? So there, what? We're not in middle school.
  10. by   NavyVet
    Well, lets see if I can tiptoe around peoples feelings enough to avoid violating ToS

    Generally speaking, religion is the root of all evil in this world from what I've seen. It doesn't matter what religion you are, what antiquated superstitious beliefs you hold, in the end lots of people suffer because of religion. Everyone gets so huffy about their beliefs that were handed to them from their parents, who got it from their parents and so on and so on. No one has any real personal stake in these beliefs other than the negative consequences of people holding said beliefs.

    I don't want to seem like I'm anti (insert your particular religion here), the truth is I think any personal set of beliefs that result in bringing more tragedy to the world are bad. In this thread alone, we have a mother who refused to do whatever was necessary to protect her life and the future happiness of her children. Now her children will never know a mothers love, and their lives will be just a little bit sadder because of her decision, the world a little bit darker. We also have other people in this thread who are angry and bitter over the perceived slights to their religions, which is a bit humorous since all these religions are supposed to be about love, rainbows, butterfly kisses and forgiveness

    Lets be real about this. If you choose to die, then that is your right as a human being, but at least have the decency to call it what it is, suicide, and to not leave behind other people who desperately need you. Hiding behind religion is kind of weak in my opinion. I know nursing school instructs us to respect the religion of others, but to me that just means I will keep my mouth shut, not that I respect your religion. If you make a really bad decision concerning your medical treatment because of your beliefs, rather than the facts I present you with.....I won't think your heroic, I will think your ignorant and wonder at what effect your senseless death will have on the rest of society.

    Just my opinion and for all of you who get all butthurt over non-believers, I'll be the first to admit I don't have all the answers.....there's always the chance you'll be on the other side of the pearly gate laughing your ass off when its my turn to answer for my earthly deeds
  11. by   weezledawg
    But can you imagine the spiritual conflicts this person would have endured should she have lived to find out that she was physically compromised by getting blood? Some things are worse than death and that's a matter of perception.
  12. by   FireStarterRN
    Quote from weezledawg
    But can you imagine the spiritual conflicts this person would have endured should she have lived to find out that she was physically compromised by getting blood? Some things are worse than death and that's a matter of perception.
    Maybe she would have gotten over it eventually...
  13. by   txpixiedust
    all red text is quoted from navyvet post.

    we also have other people in this thread who are angry and bitter over the perceived slights to their religions, which is a bit humorous since all these religions are supposed to be about love, rainbows, butterfly kisses and forgiveness

    not sure if you are referring to me, but i'm not angry & bitter. i don't think anyone who has tried to explain faith of any kind in this thread has been angry & bitter - i've read every post in this thread, but not all together so perhaps somebody was.

    what i find surprising is how much faith you have in not having any faith!!! and you spout it around like anyone who does is an idiot. i and others on this board respect your right to believe or not believe whatever you want. but do you? i'm sure you think you do, but do you really? i think if you're honest with yourself you'll find you don't. like when you said it doesn't matter what religion you are, what antiquated superstitious beliefs you hold, in the end lots of people suffer because of religion

    i don't care if you are an atheist, agnostic, or whatever else you might be. what bothers me (and probably others) is how you think anyone with a faith in god holds antiquated superstitious beliefs. even if you want to look at it "logically" - superstition has nothing to do with faith. superstition is based on fear. faith is based on a love and desire to live for a god who saved you. i live for christ because he loved me & saved me. i want to live each day for him - doing what he would have me to do, not because i fear him.

    everyone gets so huffy about their beliefs that were handed to them from their parents, who got it from their parents and so on and so on. no one has any real personal stake in these beliefs other than the negative consequences of people holding said beliefs.

    yes, i went to church with my parents - but they couldn't make that decision for me or live my life for me. i said it before and i'll say it again, there is a huge difference in being "religious" and having a true faith! are there people who go to church, profess to be christians (or jw's, catholics, or others) but don't really believe, read their bible & do what is says? yes, there are. it even says in the bible, that everyone who calls jesus lord won't enter heaven. there are people who go to church each week and even work in ministry who aren't christians. does that mean everyone doesn't have a true faith that is real & deep to them? no, it doesn't.


    "...religions, which is a bit humorous since all these religions are supposed to be about love, rainbows, butterfly kisses and forgiveness."

    yes, i'm called to love and forgive - and i do. we are called to love sinners, and live in the world but not of the world. jesus was loving, kind, and forgiving - but he'd tell people to "go and sin no more." - meaning to not consciously sin. i don't believe it's a sin to get blood, and i would absolutely do it if i needed it(but i'm not a jw). but the jw mother, felt if she had a transfusion it would be consciously sinning.

    what is most annoying is the double standard non-believers seem to live. it's o.k. for you not to believe, it's just not o.k. for me to believe. you are smart while we are idiots. it's o.k. to do & say what you want as long as you don't believe in god and attribute what you do to him.

    just my opinion and for all of you who get all butthurt over non-believers, i'll be the first to admit i don't have all the answers.....there's always the chance you'll be on the other side of the pearly gate laughing your ass off when its my turn to answer for my earthly deeds.

    well....that just makes me sad, actually. i'd be happy to discuss the bible and my faith with you through email. as i said before, i agree with you that there are many people who are "religous" but not real believers. yes, there are hypocrites in church - but it's better to sit next to them in church than hell. ha.

    god bless,
    txpixiedust
    Last edit by txpixiedust on Nov 17, '07 : Reason: Red text is quoted text from NAVYVET.

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