mother dies after refusing blood transfusion - page 4

A very sad story from England.... Read More

  1. by   RN1980
    Quote from Djuna
    Informed consent is the basis of medical and nursing practice. If a person understands the risks and benefits of a certain procedure, it is their right to refuse unless it involves a child.

    I understand people's frustrations that someone would seemingly choose to die and leave behind 2 babies, however as health care professionals it is our job to ensure someone understands exactly what they are choosing. It is not our job to force or coerce a patient into accepting medical care just because it fits in with our values or ethical stance.

    I have worked in haematology and seen a few patients chose not to receive any more chemotherapy or refuse a bone marrow transplant. They died because of that choice but it was their life and their right to decide.

    As a nurse we act as a patient advocate despite whether their choices are within our frame of moral/ethical standards.
    no one said anything about forceing,tricking or coerceing anyone to do anything, i understand it's whoevers right to do anything, i just said, it makes me sick. ahh enough of it, old news post..
    Last edit by RN1980 on Nov 9, '07
  2. by   cmo421
    Quote from RN1980
    oh no i'd let her die in peace and with all the dignity she could muster. but i believe i'd be alittle more upset than just saying "oh well you know it's her right" thats a hoqwash excuss to make yourself feel good, when you should feel ticked off. but what are you going to do.


    Please do not tell us how we should feel. We all have our ways of dealing with less then wonderful outcomes. Maybe there are those of us who are at peace with life and death and the very fine line between the two. We are ok with a human making their own, informed, well thought out decisions. Anger at a pts display of dignity with impending death is "hogwash"
  3. by   snowfreeze
    Yes we can intervene and prolong life. I have heard many stories of life prolonged and then that patient died later of an even more painful death. It is difficult to allow a young patient to refuse treatments that would likely keep them alive but that is the patients right. Respecting that patient as a whole person with ideals and beliefs is important, yes they came to you for medical assistance but not always Everything That You and the Medical Team can offer.
  4. by   Mexarican
    yea this all sounds good! let's give her blood so you, the medical staff don't have to feel bad about her dying. Please let us spare you your grief!?!? Get over yourselves....you chose your path when you attended nursing school!:angryfire Our job and mission is caring for the patient and sometimes that is in a dignified death, from their perspective, not yours! No one said it would be easy...Nursing was never presented to you as easy, not before nursing school, not during, and not after!

    Mex
  5. by   FireStarterRN
    Quote from Mexarican
    yea this all sounds good! let's give her blood so you, the medical staff don't have to feel bad about her dying. Please let us spare you your grief!?!? Get over yourselves....you chose your path when you attended nursing school!:angryfire Our job and mission is caring for the patient and sometimes that is in a dignified death, from their perspective, not yours! No one said it would be easy...Nursing was never presented to you as easy, not before nursing school, not during, and not after!

    Mex
    What are you so angry about? I don't understand your harsh post. You sound so bitter...
  6. by   RainDreamer
    Quote from jlsRN
    What are you so angry about? I don't understand your harsh post. You sound so bitter...
    Yeah that's what I was wondering. I think most of us know what nursing is about and what it encompassed when we signed up to be nurses. Most the posts here show that we all respect her decision.
  7. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from glina
    . for me, it is incredibly selfish, once you have children, to think about yourself, your beliefs or anything else before your children.

    agreed.
  8. by   talaxandra
    Depending on your perspective, people believe a lot of strange things. Religion is the key source of many, not just health, decisions for a lot of people - from what to eat or not eat, and when, through to decisions about family, community involvement, where and how to live, and how to die, among others. For people of faith, these are more important than length of life.

    My patients are forever make choices that I, or other members of the team, disagree with. However, as long as the individual is competent and clear, we don't get to take away their decision-making regarding their own health, regardless of the outcome.

    Given that not accepting blood or blood products is such a central tenant of the faith, it's something that every Jehovah's Witness patient I've cared for has thought about well in advance of a precipitating crisis.

    We get to overrule parental decision making when a child's life is at risk, because we cannot be sure that what the parents want is what the children would themselves want, if they were free from constraints. But we assume as a society that rational adults are able to weigh their alternatives an choose for themselves which option most closely meets all their needs - not just their physical ones.

    If I believed that receiving blood products would lengthen my earthly life but exclude me from an eternal afterlife in heaven, if one of my concerns for my children was that they embrace the same faith and beliefs as me, and if I believed that God knows better that we do about the natural order of things, then I would also decline a transfusion, even if it meant I died.

    I don't believe any of those things, but I respect that other people do, just as I respect the people on this board, many of whom hold views utterly diametrical to my own. I don't get to substitute my own beliefs and judgements for my patients, and I wouldn't want anyone deciding what was in my best interests for me.
  9. by   pedsnurze1
    Quote from glina
    i respect life more then anything. i am a mother, i have two girls, and i think that a mother has to be a mother first and then, after that, can be anything she wants. but, on the first place, and next 9, she has to be a mother and think about her children first. for me, there is no religion, no great cause or anything like that, which i would die for and leave my children without a mother. i would die only for them; everything else is just beyond me. for me, it is incredibly selfish, once you have children, to think about yourself, your beliefs or anything else before your children. to me, that is just primitive. i respect other opinions as i cannot change them, but, {there is no greater cause except my children, except life itself.
    }
    in this case this mother gave her life for her greater cause in order to gain the real life. this mother has unsurmountable faith in that she is following the example of her leader almighty god jehovah himself who did not withhold his only begotten son jesus christ so that the rest of us(mankind) may have hope , life , peace, etc. i happen to see this an the ultimate act of unselfishness just the opposite of your view.
    that is what makes us all wonderfully unique our abilitiy to formulate and standby our each individual decision.
  10. by   danissa
    Quote from pedsnurze1
    }
    IN this case this mother gave her life for her greater cause in order to gain the real life. This mother has unsurmountable faith in that she is following the example of her leader Almighty God Jehovah himself who did not withhold his only begotten son Jesus Christ so that the rest of us(mankind) may have hope , life , peace, etc. I happen to see this an the ultimate act of unselfishness just the opposite of your view.
    That is what makes us all wonderfully unique our abilitiy to formulate and standby our each individual decision.
    No, Im sorry, I cant shut up now! The greatest CAUSE in bringing forth life, is surely to MOTHER those lives, to be with the wee people you have created EVERY step of the way, every step that you are Physically able to take with them! Surely the greatest cause in this life, is to be raising your own babies, To be their MOTHER..which, at conception, is what your body chose to be! If help is needed to BE that Mammy..Then take it..with all your heart...Holy Christ...HOW can you miss out, and cause your babies to miss out, on the most special and unique relationship that can ever be felt in the soul??
    Again, I will offend, but I dont care really, ....will the almighty god jehovah sing these babies to sleep at night...will that same jehovah nurse them and make them strong and healthy?????????? NO!!!!
    Unselfishness...thats when you dont sleep for days, cause your babe doesnt want to, is having a growth spurt and wants to feed constantly!
    Unselfishness....NO...leaving your tiny baby is not unselfish...times that by TWO!!!:angryfire
  11. by   danissa
    [QUOTE=pedsnurze1;2489751]}
    IN this case this mother gave her life for her greater cause in order to gain the real life.

    :angryfire" THE REAL LIFE">>>>> well thats with these two babies, left with no mother! A greater cause??? What greater cause than motherhood?????
  12. by   kendel
    Quote from RN1980
    i'm sorry but there is something about just letting a patient that you very well might have saved die that makes me sick...i know all about "it's her right" stuff. well why did she even come to the hospital, why not just have the baby at home then in some cornfeild. a patient comes to the hospital and wants our help, but then when her life is on the line she refuses....i'm sorry i'm in the buissness of trying to save life,sight or limb. thank god my name is not on her record, cause it just makes me sick.
    I could understand how you feel

    its frustrating and seems so out of this world that people are like that they prefer to die and have their kids live a uncertain future over being religious
  13. by   kendel
    Quote from pedsnurze1
    }
    IN this case this mother gave her life for her greater cause in order to gain the real life. This mother has unsurmountable faith in that she is following the example of her leader Almighty God Jehovah himself who did not withhold his only begotten son Jesus Christ so that the rest of us(mankind) may have hope , life , peace, etc. I happen to see this an the ultimate act of unselfishness just the opposite of your view.
    That is what makes us all wonderfully unique our abilitiy to formulate and standby our each individual decision.

    sounds like gave life for stupidity
    you prefer to die without accepting life to take care of your kids

    so then god allowed her to have kids and she dies leaving them orphan

    sounds like cult to me

close