mother dies after refusing blood transfusion - page 11

A very sad story from England.... Read More

  1. by   AgentOrange
    <<Although I wonder why I would read something that would grossly attempt to distort the truth about what I believe. Would you read something that was anti American? Our military personal are encouraged NOT to read propaganda that would discourage them from their mission.>>

    As I mentioned, it's well known that to fully understand and convince others of ones position, one must study the opposing position. This is commonly taught in debate classes and teams. In fact, it's common practice to practice debating the opposite position, because if someone doesn't understand the opposite position, they are not going to be able to defend their own position.

    Yes, if I was in a position where I was debating the virtues of being American or some American policy, I would certainly read the anti-side. I am a Christian, but I have several books on atheism (written by atheists), as well as books on other religion (written by those of other religions), as well as general anti-Christian books (books that attack Christianity, but promote no other viewpoint). There is no way I could confidently talk about Christianity to people in general, without understanding others beliefs (and that understanding can only come by reading others primary sources, not by reading books on other religions by Christian authors.)

    As for the military--what is recommended of the common soldier in a stressful situation, is far different than what is recommended of the leaders who are actually planning the missions. Leaders planning military ventures do indeed read and study everything they can from the opposing side. All Jehovah Witnesses engage in missionary work going from door-to-door--therefor they should indeed read and be familiar with the common opposing religious beliefs in their area, as well as the anti-Jehovah Witness arguments that they will be faced with.

    My first experience with a Jehovah's Witness, was with 2 ladies who came to my door. I asked them about a particular bible verse and it's apparent contradiction with Jehovah Witness belief. They had no answer--one of the ladies told me they didn't have time to waste with people who weren't sincere seekers (they determined I wasn't a sincere seeker because I asked a thought provoking question?). I assured them I was seeking truth, wherever it may be found. They then promised they would consult with their elder and get back to me with an answer. Fair enough, but they never returned. Now, I'm confident they couldn't give me an answer without admitting that either the Bible or their belief was wrong (which is why I asked that particular question.) But I was surprised that they made no attempt at all to to answer my question--these particular Jehovah Witnesses (as I suspect most are), were trained in their own beliefs, but had absolutely no knowledge of how to respond when people questioned their beliefs. It made them ineffective witnesses. It's unlikely they would have converted me...but if they had been able to answer my question (or at least come up with some plausible possibilities), I would have been willing to talk further with them.

    Now LDS Mormons on the other hand (and I'm not a Mormon)--from what I know about their missionary training programs is that their missioniaries are trained in the beliefs of the predominant denominations/religions that they would encounter in their area of witnesses. Not surprisingly, Mormonism is one of the fastest growing religions and has a high level of converts from other religions. The fact is, the person who has studied both sides of an argument, is going to have the upper hand in any debate.
  2. by   JessicRN
    I was witness to a mother who was aJehovah witness and was 36 weeks pregnant. She developed placenta abruptia developed shock from blood loss and the family refused a transfusion. She lived but the baby died. Have to admit it was hard taking care of her but I knew her faith was strong and she would never have forgiven herself had she had the transfusion. That was 20 years ago and now there are volume expanders like HES and dextran which we use on our patients now and this seems to hold them better.
  3. by   Patti 2nd gen RN
    Quote from jlsRN
    Misinterpretation of scripture?
    Yes--Scripture is given to each of us by the God who loves us uniquely and individually--so many people (individuals and groups) will be given different instructions from scripture, and many will be bullied into accepting something because of the need to belong and be accepted, and many will just accept what others believe because it is easier, and yes, through the years scripture was and is often misinterpreted--in fact that was Jesus' soapbox way back then--that the legalistic Jews saw the letter of the law and not the intent of God's heart for his beloved children, and Jesus himself challenged them frequently about it. Faith is an individual thing, and by being called to love God through loving his children, we are called to respect and honor choice as much as the God who gave us free choice.
  4. by   WindyhillBSN
    Response to AgentOrange..............

    My first experience with a Jehovah's Witness, was with 2 ladies who came to my door. I asked them about a particular bible verse and it's apparent contradiction with Jehovah Witness belief. They had no answer--one of the ladies told me they didn't have time to waste with people who weren't sincere seekers (they determined I wasn't a sincere seeker because I asked a thought provoking question?). I assured them I was seeking truth, wherever it may be found. They then promised they would consult with their elder and get back to me with an answer. Fair enough, but they never returned. Now, I'm confident they couldn't give me an answer without admitting that either the Bible or their belief was wrong (which is why I asked that particular question.) But I was surprised that they made no attempt at all to to answer my question--these particular Jehovah Witnesses (as I suspect most are), were trained in their own beliefs, but had absolutely no knowledge of how to respond when people questioned their beliefs. It made them ineffective witnesses. It's unlikely they would have converted me...but if they had been able to answer my question (or at least come up with some plausible possibilities), I would have been willing to talk further with them



    I am disappointed that based on a "first" experience you are ready to judge over 6 million Jehovah's Wittnesses worldwide as being unable to answer deep bible questions. Especially since you are portraying yourself as open minded and well read. Many people have horrible "first" experiences with dentists, physicians, nurses, psychiatrists, pizza, and last but not least, sex. However, it doesn't cause all to stop going or try it again.
    Last edit by WindyhillBSN on Nov 22, '07 : Reason: typo
  5. by   AgentOrange
    I am disappointed that based on a "first" experience you are ready to judge over 6 million Jehovah's Wittnesses worldwide as being unable to answer deep bible questions. Especially since you are portraying yourself as open minded and well read. Many people have horrible "first" experiences with dentists, physicians, nurses, psychiatrists, pizza, and last but not least, sex. However, it doesn't cause all to stop going or try it again.
    I'm not sure how you got the impression that after my "first" experience with Jevovah Witnesses, I had no other experiences. Perhaps I wasn't clear--I have had several other experiences with Jehovah Witneses, and none of them were familiar with arguments against their beliefs or had any knowledge of arguments for other beliefs. Now, I am sure that this is also true for many people of any religious persuasion. I only brought up the point because of the poster who said Jevovah Witnesses are encouraged to study and learn--in my experience, rank and file Jehovah Witnesses (as most people) don't do that. Unlike most people, I would expect that of Jehovah Witnesses because they are purposely going out as missionaries. I'm sure there are Jevovah Witnesses who are quite educated about other religions and their own--my point is many aren't and Jehovah Witnesses are no different than anyone else in this regard.
  6. by   Atheos
    There is not really any point in arguing religion. The religious are usually irrationally faithful and the nonreligious are usually irrationally logical and there never seems to be a middle ground. Please don't yell at me (LOL) I am not taking a position on the religion war going on here. :spin:


    What we can all agree to is that no matter what motivated this mother to refuse the blood it was her right to make that choice. It may have been a bad choice, even idiotic, but it was hers. Who are we to judge? When you are on your death bed in horrible pain asking for some morphine, do you really want some one telling you that you shouldn't take it and risk your soul or do you want someone that will give it to you???
  7. by   SharonH, RN
    Quote from StanleyRW


    What we can all agree to is that no matter what motivated this mother to refuse the blood it was her right to make that choice. It may have been a bad choice, even idiotic, but it was hers. Who are we to judge?

    I don't think you quite have the hang of NOT judging others' choices.
  8. by   FireStarterRN
    Quote from StanleyRW
    There is not really any point in arguing religion. The religious are usually irrationally faithful and the nonreligious are usually irrationally logical and there never seems to be a middle ground. Please don't yell at me (LOL) I am not taking a position on the religion war going on here. :spin:

    This statement is totally untrue. There is a vast and rational middle ground in our society, based on philosophical commonalities that we all share. The religious are NOT usually irrational, and neither are nonbelievers. What IS true is that there are irrational people of every idealogical subset.
  9. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from jlsRN
    This statement is totally untrue. There is a vast and rational middle ground in our society, based on philosophical commonalities that we all share. The religious are NOT usually irrational, and neither are nonbelievers. What IS true is that there are irrational people of every idealogical subset.
    Thank you . . . . glad to know I'm not irrational. Whew. (I'm seriously thanking you here).

    steph
  10. by   Atheos
    Quote from SharonH, RN
    I don't think you quite have the hang of NOT judging others' choices.

    ...It May have been a bad choice, even idiotic...

    May have.

    Please learn to read.
    Last edit by Atheos on Nov 23, '07
  11. by   Atheos
    Quote from jlsRN
    This statement is totally untrue. There is a vast and rational middle ground in our society, based on philosophical commonalities that we all share. The religious are NOT usually irrational, and neither are nonbelievers. What IS true is that there are irrational people of every idealogical subset.
    The fact that 3 people jumped onto the first paragraph and not the last one, which of course is the important one shows just that irrationality. As far as not usually being irrational shall I list all the atrocities committed in the name of religion in reverse order starting with um
    the latest suicide bombing and ending with say Jesus getting crucified?

    I digress, absolute faith in any ideological belief is irrational by definition.
  12. by   FireStarterRN
    Quote from StanleyRW
    It MAY have.

    Please learn to read.
    [S]
    Whoa! you forgot your [dripping with sarcasm] smilie sign[/dripping with sarcasm]
    [/S]
  13. by   Atheos
    Quote from jlsRN
    [s]
    Whoa! you forgot your [dripping with sarcasm] smilie sign[/dripping with sarcasm]
    [/s]
    :spin: Sorry, I'll remember not to do that in all future postings. :spin:

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