Clinical hours short of NMC suggestion?

[helricha]

First of all, I really hope Silverdragon reads this and gives me insight.

I have sent out my application as well as all of my paperwork to the NMC for my nursing license, except my training form. I was trained in the US at an accredited University and received my bachelor degree, which consisted of three full years of nursing training and one year of prerequisites.

I have been working for two years as a theatre nurse.

I passed my IELTS with 9's acrossed the board.

I have had my licensure body fill out the paper and mailed it.

The two references are filled out and mailed.

In other words, I fulfill all the requirements of licensure in the UK thus far.

My concern is: when the dean of my university took my transcripts, she needed to convert the credit hours to actual hours. The clinical hours that she calculated up was in the six hundreds. The NMC suggests approximately two thousand hours for clinical time.

How can there be such a difference?

Will this affect my ability to be licensed in the uk?

I am frustrated that with all of the work and money I've spent on this, that it may not come to fruition. In addition, I am moving to the UK next April regardless of the decision of the NMC, as I will be going on a spousal visa. But I am also aware that there is no more clinical training hours that I could have possibly taken to add up to their suggestion.

Am I missing something?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Heather

[XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN]

that's an interesting idea. i'm an american graduate of a bsc (hons) in midwifery programme here after arriving as an rn with experience, so i had my nmc pin number. but the visa that follows the tier 4 student visa is the tier one post-study visa which i am now under, and it gives one a two year "free" period to find work without many restrictions (except for the requirement to switch over to a tier two visa within 6 months of its expiration). if you were a graduate of a uk nursing school, you wouldn't need any experience to get your pin number, naturally. so, if you graduate with a masters from a uk school, perhaps you also wouldn't need experience? better ask the nmc directly on this one, because they are strongly preoccupied with basic nursing education, rather than post-graduate. but, you never know.

if your applying for a msc in a nursing course then i think you'll find most of them require you to have nmc registration first and in order to do this you would need the years experience first.

here are a few examples

http://www.city.ac.uk/study/courses/communityhealth/nursing-msc.html

entry requirements

• registration as a nurse, normally with two years' experience
  
• if you want to take clinical modules you must be registered with the nursing and midwifery council and working within a healthcare setting
  
• a second class honours degree
  
• if you do not have a degree you will be considered, but may have to demonstrate an ability to study at degree level.
  

for those students whose fi rst language is not english, one of the following is also required:

• ielts: 7.0
  
• toefl (internetbased): 107
  
• pearson's academic score: 72.
  
• a fi rst degree from a uk university or an overseas institution recognised by the university as providing adequate evidence of profi ciency of the english language e.g. australia, canada or the usa.

this one doesn't but it doesn't give any clinical contact within the course so wouldn't meet the nmc criteria

http://www.nursing.manchester.ac.uk/postgraduate/taught/advancednursingstudies/?code=08638&pg=3

[babyNP., APRN]

Unfortunately, I've read on other posts that accelerated BSNs are hard to get accepted by the NMC, if at all. See if you can call them up and get the skinny--although I do admit, they're not that helpful and basically read what's on the website and nothing else, in my own personal experience.

[sweetiepiesteph410]

thank you all for your quick replies!! i am definitely going to contact the nmc but i'm sure it's not going to be easy getting a quick answer. i am going to see my fiance in august so maybe i can try to make an appointment with them at the london office if i'm lucky, though i'm usually never lucky . a girl's gotta hope though!

i'm guessing a lot of you are right that i do need that year of experience. i'm really afraid the accelerated bsn is gonna screw me over though getting acceptance. i had no other option here in the u.s. as the nursing programs here are so expensive cuz all the cheaper ones have years long waitlists. it's really a sad situation.

i wonder if i got the year of nursing of here and then got married if i'd still have these problems but probably if they won't accept my education. i guess i could always do an mba, haha since i have a bachelor's in finance but business just wasn't something i was passionate about like nursing. maybe nursing administration? are there those kinds of positions available in the uk like in the us?

oh one last question for latterlife midwife: you mentioned you were an american rn graduate who then went to the uk for a bsc in midwifery, how did you get nmc registration? did you already have a bsn with the required education elements the nmc wanted and then applied for your registration after your years of experience here in the us? also, how did you get accepted into the program? i've read on so many uk uni's sites that most bsc programs in nursing and midwifery aren't available to international students because they are funded by the nhs and we don't qualify for that until we settle permanently i thought. maybe you could help me understand that better as your situation could possibly be a route i take though midwifery isn't what i would specialize in, i'd like to do adult or geriatric clinical work eventually but right now i'm setting for anything in nursing over there to get to be with my fiance.

thanks again everyone for all your time and help!!! will be emailing the nmc though soon and harassing them with skype phone calls till i get straight answers about my program though, haha.

[sweetiepiesteph410]

Oh as for the MSc I did find this one program at Liverpool John Moores University that claims it's for International students. It sounds perfect but there is no clinical experience given so does that mean it's basically a teaching degree for those who want to teach nursing? It'd be perfect in location and that it's full time. I've tried emailing the Uni for answers to my questions about how it all would work with the NMC but I've heard nothing in 2 weeks. Might give them another try. What do you UK nurses think about this program? Any thoughts/opinions are greatly appreciated!

Entry requirements:

Candidates will hold a professional nursing qualification

 Candidates should hold a degree from a government approved university.

 The International English Language Testing System (IELTS) minimum 6.5 overall band or score equivalent, or evidence of having completed secondary or tertiary education through the medium of English.

 Two references, one of which should be an academic reference.

Mode of Study

The mode of study is full-time over a minimum of 1 calendar year and a maximum of 3 years. Taught modules will be completed within one academic year.

This programme will provide registered nurses with enhanced skills in theoretical principles of nursing, research, teaching and leadership. The programme has been developed specifically to meet the needs of international students and students who may be interested in international perspectives in healthcare, taking into account their academic level at the point of entry, and endeavours to meet their educational and professional aspirations.

Aim of the course

The programme aims to provide a theoretical perspective for post-registration nursing education, which meets the requirements for the award of Master of Science from Liverpool John Moores University.

Taken from: http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/MKG_Global_Docs/MSc_Nursing_international.pdf

[XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN]

It looks like a reasonable nursing masters degree but the NMC would still need you to meet the basic nurse training and experience to register and this masters wouldnt give you that.

[jls2011]

New to this forum and hope someone will have an insight.

I am an American trained nurse (with the dreaded accelerated second degree BSN) who is residing in the UK with a spousal visa. I started the NMC application process, but called today to question the clinical hours requirement. They told me straight -- that with a 12 month BSN, they will be unable to approve my application. As I'm not running off to the U.S. so quickly and I'd like to work as a nurse in the U.K., they referred me to the UCAS site, specifically the section on APEL credits. The NMC suggested contacting university programs here to see what I could do to amalgamate my US BSN.

Questions:

1) Has anyone done this? Suggestions?

2) Not to sound too complainy, but I'm unsure of one detail. The dean of my university in the U.S. explained that the clinical and theory hours are exactly the same in the accelerated program as they are in the traditional BSN. So, does that mean that if I had a traditional American BSN, I would still have difficulty joining the UK register?

Any insight would be appreciated. I was working under the assumption when I agreed to move here with my husband that having a BSN would exempt me from this mini-nightmare. I had no idea they differentiated between a traditional BSN and an accelerated BSN.

Help!

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

new to this forum and hope someone will have an insight.

i am an american trained nurse (with the dreaded accelerated second degree bsn) who is residing in the uk with a spousal visa. i started the nmc application process, but called today to question the clinical hours requirement. they told me straight -- that with a 12 month bsn, they will be unable to approve my application. as i'm not running off to the u.s. so quickly and i'd like to work as a nurse in the u.k., they referred me to the ucas site, specifically the section on apel credits. the nmc suggested contacting university programs here to see what i could do to amalgamate my us bsn.

questions:

1) has anyone done this? suggestions?

2) not to sound too complainy, but i'm unsure of one detail. the dean of my university in the u.s. explained that the clinical and theory hours are exactly the same in the accelerated program as they are in the traditional bsn. so, does that mean that if i had a traditional american bsn, i would still have difficulty joining the uk register?

any insight would be appreciated. i was working under the assumption when i agreed to move here with my husband that having a bsn would exempt me from this mini-nightmare. i had no idea they differentiated between a traditional bsn and an accelerated bsn.

help!

the question is do your clinical and theory hours match the uk hours. that is what usually is required although each case is based individually i believe some have gotten though with slightly less hours but uk clinical and theory hours are a lot as the training is full time for 3 years with a lot of clinical emphasis

for all three year nursing courses, at least half (or 2300 hours) must be in clinical or

practical training, and at least one third (or 1533 hours) must be theoretical training.

http://www.nmc-uk.org/documents/registration/registration%20information%20trained%20outside%20europe.pdf

[babyNP., APRN]

Actually, I'm glad this thread popped up again because I received an e-mail from a UK agency--the lady told me that she has never heard of an American RN with a straight 4-year bachelor's degree be denied. She said that the NMC knows that American nurses don't have nearly the amount of hours that UK nurses have in training. This is also consistent with other extensive research that I have completed through the wonders of google. When I get another chance I'll post a few links for other folks who might be reading this thread wondering if they can register.

The kicker, obviously, is immigration. I feel very fortunate that my husband is a British citizen, otherwise it would be nearly impossible in this economy, I imagine. Although I wanted to go in the first place to be near his parents so they can meet their grandkids.

The accelerated BSN is more sticky, unfortunately for you...I don't have an answer for that one.

[jls2011]

Thanks for your responses!

To Silverdragon : No, my clinical hours will not total 2300. But neither do traditional American BSNs as BabyRN has correctly pointed out. I know of no American universities where 62 weeks (37.5 hours/week) is dedicated to clinical or "on the job training". When the move to the U.K was a twinkle in my eye, I confirmed with a friend/faculty member that the requirements for the accelerated BSN was identical to the traditional students, simply condensed into a 12 month full time, M-F 8 - 5 p.m schedule. Therefore, if traditional American BSN students are awarded NMC registration "on a case by case" basis, I don't know why accelerated students are discriminated against.

Anyway, I did learn, for what it's worth, that even if I wanted to augment my BSN by parlaying into a British nursing program, I would have to wait for three years to do so, regardless of the fact that I'm on a spousal visa (married to U.K. citizen).

I have a meeting with our local MP on Monday to discuss this issue. I don't have much hope in making a dent into a system that is tremendously biased in favor of the EU, but it will be interesting nonetheless.

Thanks to both for responding, again!

[babyNP., APRN]

While I can't help you out with the accelerated thing, would you mind posting about the " UCAS site" that you mentioned, maybe a link? Could be beneficial for other folks reading this in the same predicament :) Did a quick google search and wasn't able to find anything...

[meds012674]

I also am interested in working in the UK. I currently have an ADN and am working on my BSN. Because I have an ADN, the clinical hours were included in the total credit hours in the nursing courses. It does not seem that, even when I complete my BSN, that I will have nearly enough clinical hours to complete what the NMC requires. The only two courses that I have left that require clinical hours will total 80 hours.

If I had to guess at the total clinical hours I currently have while earning my ADN, I would say 450. With the last two clinical courses that require 40 hours each, that brings me to approx. 540.

I am not really understanding why the UK has such excessive requirements? I knew someone who is American, who was living in Scotland at the time that she graduated from nursing school. So, she was trained there, and now is back in the States. The way that she spoke about it was that you could indeed work there with an ADN ??

Do they calculate this with just nursing courses or are pre reqs also calculated (for the theory portion)? I also was working on a med tech degree at one time, I have enough college credits for two bachelor degrees. Doesnt that count for something? This is horribly discouraging... I may give up my dream of ever working over there or even working for one of the travel nurse companies that employ US trained nurses in the UK.

[babyNP., APRN]

The ADN used to be accepted in years past, is what I have been able to find throughout my own research.

Try to read this thread in its entirety and you'll learn that it sounds like you don't need all those hours.