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- Nov 8, '08 by madwife2002You know what I find when they are called supernumery they immediatly think it means they dont have to do any work, I have heard it said we are supernumery we just have to observe.
- Nov 8, '08 by Silverdragon102I agree that sometimes I have had students that said we are sn and can do what we want but on the other hand I have had many students just roll their sleeves up and get down to learning. Think some actually open their eyes and look at what is happening as a qualified staff and try to gain experience before they are thrown in to the wolves where others say that they want management jobs and looking at the quickest route to go
- Nov 8, '08 by madwife2002ok I generalised
- Quote from cheshirecatyes, whatever... and the placement coordinators , lecturers and taff side are all complicit in it ?In some trusts, zippy students are being used as unpaid HCA's. Managers keep costs down by rostering students on at the weekends, and giving HCA's days off.
Could you manage on a bursery of £400 per month? Could you pay your rent, food, gas, electricity on this? I could not, I will be honest.
- Quote from madwife2002You know what I find when they are called supernumery they immediatly think it means they dont have to do any work, I have heard it said we are supernumery we just have to observe.
the problem there lays with university staff
when i was pre-reg the diploma and degree were run by different HEIs - ironically ye more prestiguous HEI ran the diploma , but equally had inherited most of the 'old' lecturers ... supernumerary to them and by association to us meant - you are not there to be HCAs ... sadly some ofthe lecturers at the (ex)poly dfelt differently and the degree students had a different view of what supernumerary meant
- Quote from cheshirecatthe 'blame' here is on staff on the wards for not working effectivelyStudents should have supernumeray status if they are not being paid to work on the ward. They should have clinical teachers on the ward, and not expect staff nurses to do all the clinical training. It is getting teachers on the cheap.
If students were trained properly and not used as ward fodder, they would have the skills needed to be effective newly qualified staff.
I did my training in the early 80's (started 1981). No way would I like to do the training the students do now. I loved my nurse training.
I just feel that in many placements students are being abused, and that is why the training is felt to be ineffective.
develop your relationship with the HEI and perhaps the link tutor or other lecturing staff will come and work with your students , perhaps they'll even fund a lecturer practitioner rioole ...
it's incredibly easy get 'heads in ' and run around like an idiot when things get a stressful, and a lot of nurses even Ward Managers and Site Managers do this ... Nursing needs to learn from the Airline Industry and start treaching and using CRM techniques - peri-operative environments often use this kind of methodology unwittingly , dittio Emergency Departments ... but a lot of other areas don't...
- Nov 9, '08 by nightmareI trained in the 70's,long before P2K and we were members of the team as soon as we set foot on a ward.You learned from the bottom up,the infernal intricacies of sluice machines ,the doing of a whole ward of observations,cleaning as well.Once you had taken a whole 30 bed Nightingale ward's worth of temperature's pulses and resps you fast became competent!One lesson I do remember was ,we were taught to pass N/G tubes and feed.Now in the ward where I learned this they quite happily taught you to use a plunger with the feed!!Knowing no better I did this on my next ward only to be soundly told off for it quite rightly!When it is pointed out to you the damage you can cause doing this it seems so obvious but,as a student,you learned from the best and the worst sometimes!
By the time we were second years we often took charge of wards ,especially at night ,but we were confident in doing it because that was what the training developed in you.Receiving night in a busy surgical ward was hectic and exciting as you tried to clerk in patients ,find doctors and generally cope with what ever was thrown at you.By third year we knew more than the junior doctors mostly.They often asked us for advice in the ward.
We had a blue book all the way through training which was signed off when you did a procedure.Our main aim was to get this book totally signed off.If we heard that a certain procedure was to be done then we were there ,asking to help ,observe etc so that we could sign it off.
Fast forward to the 90's when I had my Gall Bladder removed.The students were there,yes but there did not seem to be any motivation to observe like we had.One of them said that he could sit in a bay all day and no one would tell him to do anything.I asked him why he didn't come and watch my drains being removed but he said he didn't know about it.We went out of our way to find out these things!
- Nov 10, '08 by WhisperI 've just got back from a holiday in America, visiting a friend who I trained with. She has a much more extended practical skills list than i'll ever be able to achive, yet whilst i've stayed in the UK I've clocked up a lot of uni and in house courses, mentorship venepuncture facilitator etc.
Some of my 'skills' are not things I ever wanted to learn, or a role I previously associated with nursing, but unfortunately they have become' necessary for my job'... i never wanted to host MDT meetings to persuade spocial services to find a package of care that wasted three hours of my shift, i never once wanted to be part security guard lokcing away property that has to be signed in by two RN and then escorted down to security, ( roughly a half an hour job)
We now have six forms to complete one in triplicate if a patient dies, i often wish i could be left to do my job, without the paper work and '' new roles'' I'm sure I'd be ble to learn new clinical skills... I've fine with defibs, or looking after patients with tracheostomy or chest tube or pacing wires, tpn or ng feeds, takes me a little time to remeber how to work the machine, but i've never inserted one, or had the opportunity to learn, heck since i qualified i think i've catheterised about five patients!!!
And to go on the course to learn how to catheterise men... you need to have 'reasonable experience'... so thats one course i don't think i'll be going on!
stepping off my soap box now,
students are often eager to learn the 'essential skills' but perhaps retention of newly qualifed nurses is so low, because once you qualify the quality time for care just vanishes in a wave a paper work and phone calls?
- Nov 10, '08 by MaryAnn_RNQuote from ZippyGBRI seem to remember trying that when we had a student with VERY unsavoury personal habits . Despite being failed on that placement the student qualified and was last seen smirking in the corridoor as she walked past us....develop your relationship with the HEI and perhaps the link tutor or other lecturing staff will come and work with your students...
- Nov 10, '08 by ayla2004not reading thourgh all this on dodgy dial up at present
ng tube insertion is someitng i only got the cahnce yo do twice whilst on a neuro ward so feel this is one skill inculded in pre-reg taiing i lack experince in. but i would have a go.
i am happy to try other skills female caths, any type of injection setting up s/c fuilds etc. my mate never had the oppurtingy to do any caths