Are nurses being imported to the UK?

  1. 0 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10376026/Number-of-foreign-nurses-coming-to-UK-doubled-in-three-years-as-NHS-poaches-workers-from-abroad.htmI

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    Are Nurses being imported to the UK?

    I do not know if the Telegraph is a reliable newspaper. I find this concerning, the reason being, from what I have read Nurses in the UK are not paid a reasonable wage. If nurses are leaving it probably is that that they can find other positions that pay a living wage.

    If the UK is importing nurses from countries other than the UK it is because their wages are lower than the UK which is eroding the UK Nurses power to negotiate higher wages. With Healthcare changing in the US I can see that this could be a way to nursing wages.
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  3. Visit  Ginger's Mom profile page

    About Ginger's Mom

    From 'MASS'; Joined Oct '05; Posts: 3,228; Likes: 2,339.

    42 Comments so far...

  4. Visit  Silverdragon102 profile page
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    I have heard of some hospitals going to Spain for nurses but not sure how reliable that is, was just documented on the BBC news website. Pay will be the same regardless on where they are from as the NHS follows a banding payscale
  5. Visit  Ginger's Mom profile page
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    I realize the pain is the same, but it changes the whole supply and demand , no need to raise nursing salieries when you have eager supply willing to work .
  6. Visit  Silverdragon102 profile page
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    Currently the government is talking about not giving the NHS the annual pay-rise and I would image that would be giving many nurses reasons to be leaving.
  7. Visit  ceridwyn profile page
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    This reasoning of no need to pay rise if there are others ready and willing to work for whatever they can get does not seem to work in Australia. Seems the nurses union is worth the $600 yearly. There is more than enough willing and eager to work anytime, anywhere from overseas into Australia for whatever, as long as sponsorship or pr visa is offered, but somehow Australian nurses still get paid okay, with yearly rises and jobs are getting harder to get by the minute.

    We also have a national health care scheme, free healthcare along with private have for many, many years. Time will tell I suppose
  8. Visit  skylark profile page
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    I know of hospitals who actively recruit from Philippines, India and Portugal. They either send someone there or use a local agency to interview via skype. When I work in London, most of my coworkers describe being recruited like this.
  9. Visit  Gem1210390 profile page
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    Speaking to the assistant director of nursing in my hospital and she confirmed the hospital is going abroad to recruit nurses because we are not getting the number through university to fill open positions. This is also due to the government reducing training numbers by thousands over the last few years
  10. Visit  skylark profile page
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    Quote from Gem1210390
    Speaking to the assistant director of nursing in my hospital and she confirmed the hospital is going abroad to recruit nurses because we are not getting the number through university to fill open positions. This is also due to the government reducing training numbers by thousands over the last few years
    I find that hard to believe.
    When my London ER advertized ten band 5 posts about a year ago there were over 300 applicants.
    They recruited their ten nurses easily, but perhaps what was more significant was that all ten were foreign trained.

    I've been criticized on this forum before for saying this, but i still believe that UK nurse training is poor when compared to foreign training.
    If I have a choice, I will choose to work with a foreign nurse every time, they are just more proficient that their UK trained counterparts.
    We regularly have third year students with us, and its sad to see their lack of knowledge and skills at this late stage.

    I don't believe its the number going through university that is the issue, more that they are simply not fit for purpose at the end of their course.
  11. Visit  Gem1210390 profile page
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    Quote from skylark
    I find that hard to believe. When my London ER advertized ten band 5 posts about a year ago there were over 300 applicants. They recruited their ten nurses easily, but perhaps what was more significant was that all ten were foreign trained. I've been criticized on this forum before for saying this, but i still believe that UK nurse training is poor when compared to foreign training. If I have a choice, I will choose to work with a foreign nurse every time, they are just more proficient that their UK trained counterparts. We regularly have third year students with us, and its sad to see their lack of knowledge and skills at this late stage. I don't believe its the number going through university that is the issue, more that they are simply not fit for purpose at the end of their course.
    I am only posting what I was advised. We put jobs out where I work and find it really difficult to feel the positions. I get what you are saying that sometimes the students that are coming out are not the best. They take over year to train to the standard required on the unit without support (critical care area). I have got to say that they are not all like this and some are really good. Equally I work with people that have been trained for many years and things are questionable.

    When I went through training the education was really good. I do question students now on basic a&p and they often are unable to answer questions. The nmc need to audit what the students are learning more closely.
  12. Visit  skylark profile page
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    Quote from Gem1210390
    Equally I work with people that have been trained for many years and things are questionable.

    When I went through training the education was really good. I do question students now on basic a&p and they often are unable to answer questions. The nmc need to audit what the students are learning more closely.
    I understand about the 'old-school' nurses too!

    CPD was supposed to address many of the issues of the "we've always done it this way", and keep practice current and evidence-based, but that can be a real challenge sometimes to move things on!
    Wound management is an area that springs to mind, there are many examples of poor practice out there, (in both UK and US), that it saddens me to see so many patients receiving less than optimal care.
  13. Visit  Gem1210390 profile page
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    Quote from skylark
    I understand about the 'old-school' nurses too! CPD was supposed to address many of the issues of the "we've always done it this way", and keep practice current and evidence-based, but that can be a real challenge sometimes to move things on! Wound management is an area that springs to mind, there are many examples of poor practice out there, (in both UK and US), that it saddens me to see so many patients receiving less than optimal care.
    We still get the "this is the way we have always done it". We get a lot of drugs not given because they even document didn't give them because of work load and they didn't have the time. I don't know if it is just me but I like to stay on until my job is complete. I would never miss drugs but it is just accepted practice to miss them or give late and get them re prescribed.

    I have considered leaving nursing recently for the reason of the care not being at the level I feel it should be given. This is following both my own experience being a nurse in the nhs and also care a family member received in my current work place that was a disgrace.
  14. Visit  skylark profile page
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    Quote from Gem1210390
    We still get the "this is the way we have always done it". We get a lot of drugs not given because they even document didn't give them because of work load and they didn't have the time. I don't know if it is just me but I like to stay on until my job is complete. I would never miss drugs but it is just accepted practice to miss them or give late and get them re prescribed.

    I have considered leaving nursing recently for the reason of the care not being at the level I feel it should be given. This is following both my own experience being a nurse in the nhs and also care a family member received in my current work place that was a disgrace.
    Those are issues that need to be addressed by going further up the food chain. Either there genuinely isn't enough time, (in which case managers need to address staffing issues), or there is a culture of neglect that needs to be recognised and tackled fast.

    Either way it will require some form of audit for non-given meds, and specifics as why there were not given. Just telling a boss that Nurse A didnt give meds properly will not give managers the evidence they need to bring about change.
    And yes it could get unpleasant, so maybe find an ally first, and be prepared for some hostility.
    Encourage patients and families to complain via PALS, because once managers have to answer written complaints, things tend to get done : )
  15. Visit  skylark profile page
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    Just as an afterthought - not all nurses are in a position to stay late at the end of their shift, espcially if they rely on public transport, and/or have childcare issues.
    That does not make them a bad nurse.
    If there are genuine workload reasons for not getting the meds pass finished, then these need to be identified and dealt with. Blaming the nurses who leave on time will not fix anything.
    Identifying why they cannot ( or will not) complete their work on time is the way forward!


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