I was totally dissed last night - page 4

During my shift at the hospital I work at, I was talking to several nurses who know I'm an Excelsior student. This is a unit I very much want to work in when i graduate. To make a long story short,... Read More

  1. by   Law of Fives
    Does that mean you're against me, lgflaminni?
  2. by   pedinurse05
    Quote from Law of Fives
    You edited your post. Allow me to reply to your addition:

    So, LPN/Paramedicine is the only way to get experience? Flawed premise produces a flawed argument.
    Then why are more schools and colleges not offering an RT to RN program? Med school does not equal clinical nursing skills. RT does have clinical knowledge--no questioning that BUT it really is limited to the resp system where nursing involves multi systems with many procedures and skills. You may have more knowledge and experience than others entering the program, but the college needs to set basic limitations on entry. In my opinion, that would be (as traditional schools offer), LPN/Paramedic to RN bridges. If they allowed entry by exception, they would be bogged down in individual evaluation of experience and credentials. As a basic, generalized entry criteria one should have some LPN/Paramedic credentials with documented clinical hours worked. If all the programs for schools, government agencies, etc allowed enrolment and benefits based on individual criteria versus a set of identified criteria for entry, the manpower would be overwhelmed..not to mention all the, "well I did this too but couldn't get in...but you let him in based on this," kind of stuff. Predetermined critieria based on the norm needs to be instituted by Excelsior to gain credibility and quality of the program. The program has lost some of it's status by allowing students with little hands-on clinical experience into the program.
    Missy
  3. by   Law of Fives
    Then why are more schools and colleges not offering an RT to RN program?
    I thought that is what EC offered?

    Med school does not equal clinical nursing skills.
    You assume to much. There are different types of medical schools. The one I attended had clinical experience included into the didactic portion. You'd be surprised what we (as medical students) were required. Foleys, IVs/IV pump titration, Ultrasound, ACLS, Small laceration suturing, stitch removal, patient ambulation, wound dressing, etc, and most of it was taught the first year. People would do well to not base their arguments on assumptions.

    BUT it really is limited to the resp system
    Wish I had a dime everytime I wasked to float an OG tube that the RN couldn't get. Or everytime the RN couldn't float an IV.

    You may have more knowledge and experience than others entering the program, but the college needs to set basic limitations on entry
    Agreed, but I have issues when you limit it based on credentials such as LPN/Paramedic. Lets have an entrance exam. Be it written or clinical simmulation, but when you limit it based on your requirements, you are goint to cut out people who would otherwise be good candidates.
  4. by   pedinurse05
    Excelsior is the ONLY school I know that lets RTs bridge to RN...that's my point...it is not the norm.
  5. by   Law of Fives
    blind acceptance of the 'norm' will be the death of progress
  6. by   pedinurse05
    Quote from Law of Fives
    blind acceptance of the 'norm' will be the death of progress
    Excelsior needs to comply to a certain degree with the norm within the nursing profession. They have lost credibility due to allowing students into the program that otherwise would not be allowed into any other type of program(without starting in a generic track). Not complying within the norm of the nursing world might just be the death of the EC nursing program. Obtaining clinical experience not directly related to what nursing views as nursing experience is what makes this program lose credibility with BON. Please note that several of the boards issues with EC are a direct result of the clinical experience associated with the EC program. Your RT may be clinical indeed but it is not widely accepted as "nursing" experience--otherwise several colleges (besides EC) would offer a bridge for this. State boards of nursing often times don't allow licensure in a particular state, unless you were an LPN previously (Florida, Lousianna, Alabama are some that I know off the top). CA, KS, IL, WA are other states who have have very strict limitations on EC grads....this in a large part boils down to NURSING type clinical experience. I understand that you feel qualified, but I think EC needs to revamp their entry before they have no credibility...that needs to be achieved by molding the program to better fit what hospitals and the nursing profession find acceptable. Most individuals in the nursing profession, if asked, would tell you clinical experience is priority--and they judge that expeience within the world of nursing. Like you were questioned by a nurse manager about EC, know this is the basically the thought everywhere. To gain back some of the rep of EC they need to institute more of the "norm" within the nursing world before the degree literally will mean nothing. So what would your degree be if you could never use it? I refuse to comment further on this issue because I stand by my opinion of having actual LPN/Medic experience for entry. While you may not have this type of experience and be a great nurse, it does not fit the widely accepted criteria for bridge programs...but rather limited to the EC program...and this may or may not hinder your career in nursing. This could go on forever--but I am outa here on this one because my opinion will not change. EC needs to regain some of it's credibility with the many BON--and deviating from the norm certainly is not the way to achieve it!
    Missy
    Last edit by pedinurse05 on Dec 3, '05
  7. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Law of Fives
    blind acceptance of the 'norm' will be the death of progress
    If this is the way you really feel then, then the charge nurse comment shouldn't have even bothered you. This is what I don't understand about EC students. They knowingly go with a program that doesn't follow the standards of nursing education, accepts people who have little or nothing to do with the nursing profession, and then they're upset when people raise questions about it. What do you expect?

    If the EC degree works in your state, and you don't plan to move then fine, go with it. But don't expect the entire nursing profession to always embrace you with open arms. There are going to be people who don't respect the degree. You can't have it both ways.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Dec 4, '05
  8. by   Law of Fives
    If this is the way you really feel then, then the charge nurse comment shouldn't have even bothered you.
    you lost me, care to explain?

    accepts people who have little or nothing to do with the nursing profession


    and then they're upset when people raise questions about it
    question it all you want, but present it as a rational concern, not an attack. That's the issue, Lizz. I don't know why after all this time you still don't understand.

    But don't expect the entire nursing profession to always embrace you with open arms
    I don't expect anything from anyone. Starting this thread was an attempt to garner a little support from other EC students, which, unfortunately, as the thread has taken the direction it has, I've come to find I don't really need. I couldn't care less what the rest of the profession embraces, but don't call me, or anyone else for that matter, something we are not - incompetent. Especially when the claim cannot be qualified.

    There are going to be people who don't respect the degree
    I get the impression you are posting for argument's sake, but I'll humor you. Respect the degree, or don't - doesn't matter. As long as it will allow me to accomplish what I need, your/other's respect is not requisite.

    2B

    Have a good day.
  9. by   Sheri257
    Quote from pedinurse05
    For those that say Excelior is an easy out because we skipped clinicals, they are very misled...I have been working hands-on in the clinical environment for beyond 10 years. Experience is something that grows with time and can't be gained (beyond the basics) in clinicals. By NO means was this an easy out for me!
    Missy ... with all due respect ... it is easier. There is an LVN in my class who also has 10 years experience. You don't think it would be easier for her if she could skip all the clinicials and just focus on the theory classes?

    Of course it's easier. Here's why: Not only does she have to attend a 12 hour clinical day in the hospital every week, which often includes commuting for another two hours just to get there, but she also has to attend lab an additional six hours each week. Add to that care plans, other clinical assignments, and lab practicals that are due each and every week, and it's a ton of work. Care plans alone can take a day out of your schedule because they're so time consuming.

    If she only had to focus on theory classes, it would save her a hellava lot of time, especially since the theory classes are only six hours a week. Granted, you have to study a lot for those theory classes, but it would be luxury to only have to worry about theory alone without all the clinical assignments.

    There are five LVN's in my class. Some are fresh out of school, others have worked as LVN's for years. Regardless of their experience, or lack thereof, EC would have been a hellava lot easier for all them than what they're going through now.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Dec 4, '05
  10. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Law of Fives
    I couldn't care less what the rest of the profession embraces, but don't call me, or anyone else for that matter, something we are not - incompetent. Especially when the claim cannot be qualified.
    When did I call you incompetent? I did no such thing. I've been debating education standards and the state BON's issues with EC. I never once called you incompetent or, anything else for that matter.

  11. by   Law of Fives
    I've been debating education standards and the state BON's issues with EC
    Then you're in the wrong thread. Read the title of the thread. Sheesh, I'm outa here.
  12. by   willtm
    For many people who are LPNs the traditional route is not a possibility. You have no idea how much self dicipline it takes to be successful in ECs program. Each person must find their own way, their own motivation. There are no instructors hanging over your shoulder, you set your own test dates which can easily be changed. Why would an experienced hospital LPN need to spend 4 hours a day communting...will this make those ladies you know better RNs? Will it make you a better RN?

    Just because something is more stressful and time consuming due to travel doesn't mean it is a better program...it's just a different program. Some people need some one to impose deadlines and rules, others don't.

    For the record I spent many, many hours writting care plans and sending them off to EC staff for review while prearing for the CPNE. I often used patient scenerios from work, minus the name, of course. I also spent many hours reviewing and practicing the labs and 21 assessments--on patients at work and on my own kids--all of these things are required to be done to perfection at the CPNE, it takes MONTHS to prepare for this regardless of of how many years of experience the person has if they want to be successful. At the CPNE you can be failed for something as easy to do as entering a med room with out washing your hands.

    I think the part you are missing is that EC isn't just theory classes. It's care plans and labs and a clinical test. All of this is very time consuming to prpare for, but it's done at home--at midnight when the kids are asleep, during nap time or while the kids are playing. And it's done in between and during shifts at work. It takes over your life and every waking thought--just like traditional school--it just doesn't require hours of driving.

    Most people do not complete the program in less then a year. It took me a year and I already had all the gen ed completed. A year is actaully longer then a traditional prgram would have been. LPN bridges here start mid June and are completed by mid May.

    Of course, this is just my experience..other's ecperiences may vay:wink2:

    Quote from lizz
    Missy ... with all due respect ... it is easier. There is an LVN in my class who also has 10 years experience. You don't think it would be easier for her if she could skip all the clinicials and just focus on the theory classes?

    Of course it's easier. Here's why: Not only does she have to attend a 12 hour clinical day in the hospital every week, which often includes commuting for another two hours just to get there, but she also has to attend lab an additional six hours each week. Add to that care plans, other clinical assignments, and lab practicals that are due each and every week, and it's a ton of work. Care plans alone can take a day out of your schedule because they're so time consuming.

    If she only had to focus on theory classes, it would save her a hellava lot of time, especially since the theory classes are only six hours a week. Granted, you have to study a lot for those theory classes, but it would be luxury to only have to worry about theory alone without all the clinical assignments.

    There are five LVN's in my class. Some are fresh out of school, others have worked as LVN's for years. Regardless of their experience, or lack thereof, EC would have been a hellava lot easier for all them than what they're going through now.

  13. by   Tweety
    [QUOTE=MedictoRN]How many traditional nursing students do you know of that finished there LPN to RN program in less than a year. There are numerous EC grads that have done just that.

    QUOTE]


    The LPN to RN programs here are just a year long. After all they already have the first year done in LPN school. So I'm not quite understanding you. edit....just realized you might be talking co-reqs here like the A&P and Micro., etc. that they don't need in LPN school. Some people who work full time indeed take those prior to the LPN to RN program, not all but some do.

    I will say I work with an LPN who has been an excellent med-surg nurse for many years. She just finished Excelsior, but flunked the clinical aspect. I was shocked because she's such an excellent clinician. So they just don't graduate anyone through their clinical aspect of it. You have to be perfect and competent.
    Last edit by Tweety on Dec 4, '05

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