I was totally dissed last night

[Law of Fives]

During my shift at the hospital I work at, I was talking to several nurses who know I'm an Excelsior student. This is a unit I very much want to work in when i graduate. To make a long story short, the charge nurse walks up in the middle of the convo, and asks about the program. She asked, "what about clinicals?". When I explained how the program worked, she replied "Well I hope they don't hire you for this unit, I don't see how that sort of program can produce a competent nurse." Ouch! I know she doesn't do the hiring, and when the person that does do the hiring sees my qualifications, I'll be hired on the spot. I also knew this sort of discrimination exists, but had never experienced it first hand. Very disheartening.

[Law of Fives]

So is everything else for that matter. We all abstract our own reality, however there are those instances that a clear designation of competent and incompetent can be made with an acceptable degree of certainty.

[BBFRN, BSN, PhD]

Pedinurse, I'm with you- you made some very valid points. And I'm an EC grad as well.

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

I think i've gotten the whole point of this thread, and won't continue to read it.

I will say, however, the reasons i never considered EC have been listed here already.

[Law of Fives]

Does that mean you're against me, lgflaminni?

[pedinurse05]

You edited your post. Allow me to reply to your addition:

So, LPN/Paramedicine is the only way to get experience? Flawed premise produces a flawed argument.

Then why are more schools and colleges not offering an RT to RN program? Med school does not equal clinical nursing skills. RT does have clinical knowledge--no questioning that BUT it really is limited to the resp system where nursing involves multi systems with many procedures and skills. You may have more knowledge and experience than others entering the program, but the college needs to set basic limitations on entry. In my opinion, that would be (as traditional schools offer), LPN/Paramedic to RN bridges. If they allowed entry by exception, they would be bogged down in individual evaluation of experience and credentials. As a basic, generalized entry criteria one should have some LPN/Paramedic credentials with documented clinical hours worked. If all the programs for schools, government agencies, etc allowed enrolment and benefits based on individual criteria versus a set of identified criteria for entry, the manpower would be overwhelmed..not to mention all the, "well I did this too but couldn't get in...but you let him in based on this," kind of stuff. Predetermined critieria based on the norm needs to be instituted by Excelsior to gain credibility and quality of the program. The program has lost some of it's status by allowing students with little hands-on clinical experience into the program.

Missy

[Law of Fives]

Then why are more schools and colleges not offering an RT to RN program?

I thought that is what EC offered?

Med school does not equal clinical nursing skills.

You assume to much. There are different types of medical schools. The one I attended had clinical experience included into the didactic portion. You'd be surprised what we (as medical students) were required. Foleys, IVs/IV pump titration, Ultrasound, ACLS, Small laceration suturing, stitch removal, patient ambulation, wound dressing, etc, and most of it was taught the first year. People would do well to not base their arguments on assumptions.

BUT it really is limited to the resp system

Wish I had a dime everytime I wasked to float an OG tube that the RN couldn't get. Or everytime the RN couldn't float an IV.

You may have more knowledge and experience than others entering the program, but the college needs to set basic limitations on entry

Agreed, but I have issues when you limit it based on credentials such as LPN/Paramedic. Lets have an entrance exam. Be it written or clinical simmulation, but when you limit it based on your requirements, you are goint to cut out people who would otherwise be good candidates.

[pedinurse05]

Excelsior is the ONLY school I know that lets RTs bridge to RN...that's my point...it is not the norm.

[Law of Fives]

blind acceptance of the 'norm' will be the death of progress

[pedinurse05]

blind acceptance of the 'norm' will be the death of progress

Excelsior needs to comply to a certain degree with the norm within the nursing profession. They have lost credibility due to allowing students into the program that otherwise would not be allowed into any other type of program(without starting in a generic track). Not complying within the norm of the nursing world might just be the death of the EC nursing program. Obtaining clinical experience not directly related to what nursing views as nursing experience is what makes this program lose credibility with BON. Please note that several of the boards issues with EC are a direct result of the clinical experience associated with the EC program. Your RT may be clinical indeed but it is not widely accepted as "nursing" experience--otherwise several colleges (besides EC) would offer a bridge for this. State boards of nursing often times don't allow licensure in a particular state, unless you were an LPN previously (Florida, Lousianna, Alabama are some that I know off the top). CA, KS, IL, WA are other states who have have very strict limitations on EC grads....this in a large part boils down to NURSING type clinical experience. I understand that you feel qualified, but I think EC needs to revamp their entry before they have no credibility...that needs to be achieved by molding the program to better fit what hospitals and the nursing profession find acceptable. Most individuals in the nursing profession, if asked, would tell you clinical experience is priority--and they judge that expeience within the world of nursing. Like you were questioned by a nurse manager about EC, know this is the basically the thought everywhere. To gain back some of the rep of EC they need to institute more of the "norm" within the nursing world before the degree literally will mean nothing. So what would your degree be if you could never use it? I refuse to comment further on this issue because I stand by my opinion of having actual LPN/Medic experience for entry. While you may not have this type of experience and be a great nurse, it does not fit the widely accepted criteria for bridge programs...but rather limited to the EC program...and this may or may not hinder your career in nursing. This could go on forever--but I am outa here on this one because my opinion will not change. EC needs to regain some of it's credibility with the many BON--and deviating from the norm certainly is not the way to achieve it!

Missy

[Sheri257]

blind acceptance of the 'norm' will be the death of progress

If this is the way you really feel then, then the charge nurse comment shouldn't have even bothered you. This is what I don't understand about EC students. They knowingly go with a program that doesn't follow the standards of nursing education, accepts people who have little or nothing to do with the nursing profession, and then they're upset when people raise questions about it. What do you expect?

If the EC degree works in your state, and you don't plan to move then fine, go with it. But don't expect the entire nursing profession to always embrace you with open arms. There are going to be people who don't respect the degree. You can't have it both ways.

[Law of Fives]

If this is the way you really feel then, then the charge nurse comment shouldn't have even bothered you.

you lost me, care to explain?

accepts people who have little or nothing to do with the nursing profession

and then they're upset when people raise questions about it

question it all you want, but present it as a rational concern, not an attack. That's the issue, Lizz. I don't know why after all this time you still don't understand.

But don't expect the entire nursing profession to always embrace you with open arms

I don't expect anything from anyone. Starting this thread was an attempt to garner a little support from other EC students, which, unfortunately, as the thread has taken the direction it has, I've come to find I don't really need. I couldn't care less what the rest of the profession embraces, but don't call me, or anyone else for that matter, something we are not - incompetent. Especially when the claim cannot be qualified.

There are going to be people who don't respect the degree

I get the impression you are posting for argument's sake, but I'll humor you. Respect the degree, or don't - doesn't matter. As long as it will allow me to accomplish what I need, your/other's respect is not requisite.

2B

Have a good day.

[Sheri257]

For those that say Excelior is an easy out because we skipped clinicals, they are very misled...I have been working hands-on in the clinical environment for beyond 10 years. Experience is something that grows with time and can't be gained (beyond the basics) in clinicals. By NO means was this an easy out for me!

Missy ... with all due respect ... it is easier. There is an LVN in my class who also has 10 years experience. You don't think it would be easier for her if she could skip all the clinicials and just focus on the theory classes?

Of course it's easier. Here's why: Not only does she have to attend a 12 hour clinical day in the hospital every week, which often includes commuting for another two hours just to get there, but she also has to attend lab an additional six hours each week. Add to that care plans, other clinical assignments, and lab practicals that are due each and every week, and it's a ton of work. Care plans alone can take a day out of your schedule because they're so time consuming.

If she only had to focus on theory classes, it would save her a hellava lot of time, especially since the theory classes are only six hours a week. Granted, you have to study a lot for those theory classes, but it would be luxury to only have to worry about theory alone without all the clinical assignments.

There are five LVN's in my class. Some are fresh out of school, others have worked as LVN's for years. Regardless of their experience, or lack thereof, EC would have been a hellava lot easier for all them than what they're going through now.