Excelsior Pass Rate? - page 7

Does anyone know Excelsior's passing rate? Just curious. tia Kelly... Read More

  1. by   Sheri257
    I think it's pretty obvious I'm a student, since a lot of you have read and responded to my posts about classmates, etc. in the student forum. I've never said I was anything else but a student.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jun 22, '04
  2. by   BBFRN
    The CPNE is tough. Imagine your clinical instructor telling you that they're going to follow you around on the floor, and you have to do everything perfectly within a 2.5 hr time frame or you will fail- even in the area of showing how much you care about the pt. That's a lot of pressure! But, if you have failed twice before in the same area (I think the poster said it was the Eval Phase area), it's a given that you're going to have to change the way you're doing some things, or you'll fail again. You can fail 1 adult & 1 peds PCS, and retake those at the same CPNE date, as well as any labs stations failed. I think that's more than fair, honestly. EC makes no bones about letting us know that we are already expected to know this stuff before we take this exam. And it can be hard to keep your focus when other testers are dropping like flies all around you.

    As far as EC's didactic pass rates, their grade ratings are like any other school's- except we don't get A+ or -, just a flat letter grade. I'd say half the people I know have failed 1 didactic course, at least. I haven't failed any, but I did get a C on one of the exams- not EC's fault- it was all on me. They didn't "scam" or "trick" me- I didn't study the psych nursing portion enough, as I'd had plenty of psych courses...but they weren't psych nursing courses.
    I think EC has people that pass all the didactic courses, and fail at the clinical portion, just like any other nursing program. You can have all the nursing knowledge in the world, but if you can't apply that knowledge in the pt care setting, then it's pretty much worthless.
    Those of us who have passed the CPNE on the first try might have a problem with someone saying it's EC's fault that they failed 3 times, as we know how hard we studied to pass the exam. It wasn't fate that I passed...I did the work, and I did it how they wanted me to do it.

    As for Cali and EC, I have given up on any conspiracy theories about that. I don't live there, and I figure EC and Californian students can take up for themselves in that arena. Cali does have very cheap tuition rates for in-state students, but most areas also have a relatively high cost of living (probably in part to help subsidize things like this). That may account for the high number of EC students there- people can't afford to quit working full time to go to school.
  3. by   BBFRN
    Lol...Yes, Lizz- who are you REALLY? I've become quite fond of Lizz myself.
  4. by   Sheri257
    Quote from lgflamini
    Lol...Yes, Lizz- who are you REALLY? I've become quite fond of Lizz myself.
    As I've said many times on other threads, I'm a 43 year old student working on another career. What else is there to know? I've previously worked in a bunch of other jobs, but I won't bore you with my resume.

    I realize that you guys don't always like my posts and, in the interest of peace, I've tried to back off by not responding to some comments I read.

    But when some things are repeatedly stated like the tuition argument, which just doesn't make much sense, I do feel compelled to respond. And, of course, I always enjoy a good debate.

  5. by   BBFRN
    LMAO- Lizz, I was kidding.
  6. by   Sheri257
    BTW Kim, it's not that I think conventional schools are all that great. They're not. Traditional schools churn out their fair share of problem grads. I just happen to think the risks are greater with the way the EC program is set up, along the lines of the EMT examples that Spazzy cited.

  7. by   chris_at_lucas_RN
    Lizz, do you have any personal experience with EC, or have you actually known anyone who was an EC student or grad?

    Success at EC depends upon performance, only. The fact that they are narrowing the field from which applicants are accepted only speaks to the smaller group of students, and probably satisfying criteria designed for trad schools. After all, who (except California) writes regs for one school at a time?

    If you can pass the EC exams, and if you can pass the CPNE, and you can pass the NCLEX, you have proved yourself beyond what is expected of the students of any other school, anywhere.

    And while we are considering "pass rates," shall we also consider how many students who are working through EC are actually in foreign countries? Many of whom speak a first language which is not English?

    Just keeping the pot going with fact based statements and thoughts.....

    BTW, lizz, you still haven't said what you are or used to be, and what it is you are a student of now. Is any of it nursing? Like I said, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter what. It just seems like you would have this info in your profile, if any of it was nursing.... Just curious.
  8. by   kimlpn
    I also have grown rather fond of Lizz--kind of like some songs I hear on the radio that I totally hate and then catch myself singing or humming them frequently....definately a grow on ya type love (but never-the-less Lizz you add spice to the topic...)
  9. by   RN34TX
    Quote from lizz
    BTW Kim, it's not that I think conventional schools are all that great. They're not. Traditional schools churn out their fair share of problem grads. I just happen to think the risks are greater with the way the EC program is set up, along the lines of the EMT examples that Spazzy cited.

    If ever in your life you end up working in a teaching hospital, I believe that you will change your mind. I work everyday with ADN and BSN students, they get PLENTY of chances to screw up and re-do whatever they messed up. They still graduate. With Excelsior....you screw up, you are done!! Come back next time and take the whole exam again.
    However, I did enjoy your perspective on tuition with CA schools, etc. Gave me something to think about.
    But let me ask you, if I missed your other posts, why do YOU think CA made that decision?
    The CA board of nursing website clearly states that it had nothing to do with poor performance from Excelsior students practicing as RN's and yet I read everyday from people who are convinced that Excelsior grads are unsafe and "wouldn't want an Excelsior grad taking care of me in the hospital."
    I'm not quoting you personally, I'm genuinely asking why you think that the decision was made by the CA BRN?
    I'm looking for other perspectives because the arguement that more clinical time in school makes you a better nurse....that doesn't cut it for me.
    I will take an experienced LPN/LVN over the new grad RN BSN from some prestigious school any day if I were sick in the hospital.
    But maybe that's because I'm in the business. The general public can get very hung up on titles and credentials and very easily find comfort and take for granted that the person with more credentials has to be the better person to take care of them.
    I'm glad that I have more insight than the general public when it comes to competent nursing care.
  10. by   MickyB-RN
    I will take an experienced LPN/LVN over the new grad RN BSN from some prestigious school any day if I were sick in the hospital.
    But maybe that's because I'm in the business. The general public can get very hung up on titles and credentials and very easily find comfort and take for granted that the person with more credentials has to be the better person to take care of them.>>

    So true. I would also take the experienced LPN.
    During my ICU clinical rotation, a physician recommended a book for me to read. Entitled, "Complications, A Surgeon's Notes on an Imperfect Science" by Atul Gawande. It's worth reading for those starting out in the medical field.


    Kelly
  11. by   Sheri257
    Quote from chris_at_lucas
    If you can pass the EC exams, and if you can pass the CPNE, and you can pass the NCLEX, you have proved yourself beyond what is expected of the students of any other school, anywhere.
    Uh ... not necessarily. Perhaps it would be useful to see what the board had to say about that.

    For example, let's talk about LVN's, since they obviously have a lot of experience. That's why California has challenge exams which essentially allow them to skip about a year in my ADN program if they pass (although the challenge exams are very tough and 50 percent of LVN's don't pass at my school).

    Nevertheless, assuming that they do pass, LVN's still have to go through at least one more year of school, because California law requires them to complete clinical rotations in advanced med-surg, psych and geriatrics. This is the law, and these required courses are not taught in California LVN programs.

    Excelsior proposed the CPNE as a substitute for this but, as the board stated, "CPNE does not test in all of the required areas, and it cannot be substituted as challenging in all areas and meeting the required areas of clinical practice. Clinical courses cannot be challenged when students have not had the content."

    The CPNE doesn't test for everything the state requires, even for LVN's. And, even if they did, they wouldn't be able to document the large number of supervised clinical hours that the law also requires.

    Anyway, here's the reference if you'd like to take a look. The most relevant info starts on p. 13.

    http://www.rn.ca.gov/pdf/brdmins%2012-03.pdf

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jun 22, '04
  12. by   Sheri257
    Quote from RN34TX
    I'm genuinely asking why you think that the decision was made by the CA BRN?
    Why? I'll give you an honest opinion, and it's not just about the clinicals. It happened mostly because of the things that Spazzy described ... EMT's, MA's or whoever were taking a quick course and grabbing a license to qualify for the EC program without much experience. Some of these people were getting through the program and becoming RN's.

    They did cause some major problems, and Kaiser and the California Nurses Association (among others) complained. These are pretty big organizations, so the state had to pay attention.

    But this is where I think EC students tend to misunderstand the problem that the state was facing. Once they had to investigate, and found that the EC program would never comply with California law, they really didn't have much of a choice. You can't tell all the other schools they have to follow the law and then, make an exception for just one school.

    And, it certainly didn't help that EC wasn't making much of an effort to comply with the state's rules although, in all honesty, they probably couldn't because it would cost them a fortune.

    I do think that if the state had a problem with EC, they should have addressed it much sooner. But, government agencies tend to act slowly and, I suspect in this case, they really didn't even consider it until Kaiser and CNA got involved. But, once the complaints were on the table, they had to follow the law.

    Now if EC had tightened up a bit, and prevented some of these problem cases which prompted the subsequent complaints, maybe this never would have happened. But they didn't and, once the industry heavyweights made it an issue, there was no way the state could justify keeping the program under the law. There were simply too many areas where the EC program didn't comply.

    That's the real reason I think it happened.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Jun 22, '04
  13. by   deej
    Quote from lizz
    ... EMT's, MA's or whoever were taking a quick course and grabbing a license to qualify for the EC program without much experience. Some of these people were getting through the program and becoming RN's.

    They did cause some major problems, and Kaiser and the California Nurses Association (among others) complained. These are pretty big organizations, so the state had to pay attention.
    Not to mention there were a few businesses who ran "Become an RN!" ads that were basically combining substandard EMT instruction (to satisfy EC's admissions requirement) with tutoring for the nursing concepts exams.

    DJ

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