Excelsior Pass Rate? - page 6
Does anyone know Excelsior's passing rate? Just curious. tia Kelly... Read More
Jun 21, '04Quote from chris_at_lucasNicely put, Chris.Ya know, not every program is for every body. Ya do whatcha have ta do if ya wanna be a nurse...
Jun 21, '04I second what Sickle Moon said--- beautiful job Chris the girl! :kiss
Kelly--- just do your research, talk to people who have been through the program or who are going with it, and go with your gut when you are ready. It sounds like that is exactly what you are doing already, so I'll just shush now.
And "Spazzy Lizz" :chuckle :chuckle :chuckle
Jun 21, '04I enjoyed your post Chris. The motivation behind the CA decision I have no doubt is about money. I found out that the school graduates more new RN candidates in the state of CA than ANY other school in the state. So all of these CA residents are becoming RN's but another state is raking in the money.
I've spoken to the CA board. They have issued RN licenses since the school's nursing program exisited and was NLN accredited (1972) but it has been 20 years since they actually REVIEWED their curriculum, under the prompting of special interest groups.
I find this odd because whenever I apply for a license in a new state, they want my school transcripts to "review" my program to make sure that I took everything an RN is supposed to take-- Microbiology, Maternal Child nursing, psych, etc. So you can't tell me that every time the CA board issued an RN license that they were not aware that Excelsior was not identical to the CA "model curriculum" for RN programs.
The only thing I will disagree on is the actual CPNE itself. I passed my first time around but not everyone who takes it gets the same degree of difficulty. 2 of my PCS's were so easy I was literally standing around most of the time. The other 2 ( I had to repeat one PCS) I barely finished on time because I got a lot of time consuming areas of care to complete and felt rushed. If you get all easy PCS's you go back home telling everyone that it's no big deal and that people fail because they weren't prepared. (Which is true in many cases, but not always in my opinion.)
One student in my group failed her Peds PCS. She had a screaming 6 year old who would not cooperate. I had an easy 12 year old who needed next to nothing. Yes nurses have to deal with difficult patients everyday, but is it fair to put extra stress on students during an exam by giving them patients like that? I just think that it was a lot easier for me to demonstrate my skills on my patient than it was for her because I got an easier patient and that is why I do not think that the exam is always fair. She also got assigned a confused patient who spoke no English whatsoever and no one in the hospital could interpret. She was asked assess his level of orientation (person, place, time) - she passed anyway. I got assigned the same area of care but my patient spoke English and was alert and oriented. Fair exam? Not from what I saw that weekend. I did think that the examiners were very fair and supportive for the mostpart but I've heard from many students getting assigned patients in restraints, etc. and these are hurdles that do not need to be thrown into the exam when the students are nervous enough as it is.
I passed my first time but I very much sympathize with people who don't for reasons like that. They do need to make that exam more equal for everyone.
Jun 21, '04On the other hand Chris at Lucas, you are right. "Traditional" schools are not equal and fair for everyone either!!
Jun 21, '04Quote from chris_at_lucasI agree that California should have looked at EC sooner. My guess is that it was a bureaucractic screwup and, since EC is an unusual program, they probably didn't look at it like they do with all the other schools in the state. You'll see in the board minutes where a bunch of schools report on NCLEX pass rates, program compliance, course changes etc. So, the board probably screwed up and didn't do anything until it was called to their attention.As for California and licensing, if EC's policies "violated" (I think that was the word used, somewhere up there) California's BON's regs so badly, why did it take 20 or more years to get this ban? Take a look at the tuition costs of the state's schools of nursing and see if there isn't the slightest possibility that they might not want to see their tuition dollars heading to New York? Too many successful, terrific Excelsior College nurses out there for it to be because of poor skills or whatever. It's a big state--did they close down other schools whose graduates aren't all perfectly sterling nurses? Didn't think so.
You seem to be hung up on the tuition issue, but I honestly don't think that was a factor. My school has to routinely deny 20 or more qualified applicants every semester because they can't take them all. And that's after they got a two-year $100,000 grant to take 10 more students in each class. Tuition dollars don't even make a dent in what it costs take more students.
It costs my school about $5000 to take a new student. Whereas the tuition the student pays is only $1,000. At that cost, the school actually loses $4,000 for every extra student they take. That shortfall has to be subsidized with state budget dollars.
So ... I don't see much of a financial incentive there. I don't see how this is a tuition grab, when the state actually loses a lot of money by taking more students. It just doesn't make any sense.
Last edit by Sheri257 on Jun 21, '04
Jun 21, '04Thanks for the feedback, RN34TX..... You are absolutely right. Some people get patients who really ought not to be CPNE patients. I don't know what to think about that, frankly, unless allowances are made for that, but then we jump right back into subjectivity.
I guess it's the luck of the draw, like the rest of life. Doesn't that just suck? My Dad used to tell me, "you pays your nickel and you takes your chance." It was the only time he ever used poor (except for one other joke, which I will not share here. :imbar )
Jun 21, '04lizz wrote: I agree that California should have looked at EC sooner.
lizz also wrote: Whereas the tuition the student pays is only $1,000.
For now, I really don't care enough..... Plenty of jobs, plenty of other states. I've never had any desire to live in California (even though my family is there), and this is just one more reason, although I could be licensed there, having begun my EC experience early enough. Why go where you are not wanted?
Jun 21, '04Quote from chris_at_lucasI was just using my school as an example. And, you don't have to take my word for it. Here's a link to my CC's estimated program costs. You'll see the tuition costs under "enrollment fees." I was wrong about the $1,000. It's actually cheaper, about $865 ... total.I have seen much, much higher quotes of students' costs to attend California nursing schools, in published material (not just someone's say-so).
And here's an article which mentions the two-year state grant of $100,000 which allowed the school to take an extra 10 students per year. If they need an extra $100,000 to take only ten extra students per year, it's pretty obvious that the tuition doesn't begin to cover the costs.
You guys are always talking about the money. What money? If state schools are flooded with extra students because EC is not accepted here, the state actually loses a ton of money. Assuming, of course, the state is able to pay for additional subsidies to take more students, which is unlikely.
Last edit by Sheri257 on Jun 22, '04
Jun 22, '04Quote from chris_at_lucasThis is another thing I don't understand. You guys are always saying that CPNE is tough. But here, it sounds like you're saying it's easier since, apparently, the percentage requirements to pass are lower than a traditional program. Is this a good thing?As for the CPNE, on the labs you only have to get 50% (you can retake all four stations if necessary, which sounds like 4 out of 8 to me), and on the PCS's, you only have to get 60% (three out of five). What more could you want? If you still can't get it, maybe you need to practice and prepare a little more or better.
In my traditional school, anything under 69 was failing academically, and for anything under 85%, you failed a skills lab and were required to personally put in four hours of solid practicing under supervision in the skills lab.
Jun 22, '04Quote from lizzLizz-- Chris was just pointing out that people are given plenty of chances to pass. She wasn't comparing the CPNE to a traditional nursing program, since there really is no way to compare the two.This is another thing I don't understand. You guys are always saying that CPNE is tough. But here, it sounds like you're saying it's easier since, apparently, the percentage requirements to pass are lower than a traditional program. Is this a good thing?
Jun 22, '04Spazzy and Chris--
No matter what you say to Liz about Excelsior...she will continue to argue over it!!! I say just have your KUDOS Liz mmmhmmm great glad traditional school is working for you so wonderfully, excellent job with your academic success, and above all you go girl!!!! I truly mean this too!
My goal is to NOT always be right (because I am human not divine)...but to try to accomplish my goals in a way that is well rounded for myself and family!!! It is not that I CAN'T go to a traditional school but rather I have made the choice not to. I was accepted locally at the nursing program where I took all of my generals and have maintained a 4.0 on the president's list every semester--but i prefer to NOT put my 3 year old in daycare--my own personal choice. If one sets their mind to it they can accomplish many things including the CPNE. Guess the old saying of before judging walk in another's shoes is pretty fitting! There will be and has been good and bad nurses graduating from both traditional and non traditional schools!!! So to those traditional students glad it works and those non traditional glad that works too--diversity makes the world colorful.
KimLast edit by kimlpn on Jun 22, '04
Jun 22, '04kimlpn, I'm guessing you are an EC student. Yea!!! :hatparty: Applause for your little one too! What a lucky child!
I didn't go to EC because I wasn't smart enough for trad school, far from it. I took the PSB cold with a friend who wanted to go to nursing school and my scores were so high, they recruited me. Since I already have a master's degree and am Phi Beta Kappa, I know something about what makes for quality education and the experience of being a successful student, in addition to being successful "in the world." It is actually more important for the student to have the necessary personality attributes than for a particular program to have certain attributes (within limits, of course). Kind of like when the student is ready, the teacher (or program) appears.
I don't worry too much about what lizz says. No offense meant here, so please nobody chew me up for this, but my understanding is, lizz isn't an EC student, may not be a nursing student, may not be a nurse. Not sure what lizz's background is, because it's not available in her profile. However, one need not have credentials to have a legitimate opinion, if one bothers to read and think, and if you want to add spice to a discussion, lizz is who you want. I haven't ever unsub'd a thread she was active in for reasons of boredom, I can assure you.
As to whether the CPNE is "easy" or not, my experience is that, educationally, what I know is easy and what I don't know is hard. I've been that way since I was a child. It took me years to realize that it was a function of my own competence and not an intrinsic quality of the task. (I used to make A's on exams and think, "that was an easy test," not "wow, I'm smart." For some reason, it didn't work that way when I did poorly--I always thought I wasn't very smart.) I think that is just human experience.
I am just so lovin' this thread!!!