Excelsior and California

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I know there has been some debate about Excelsior and jobs in California but I would like to post my experience for others. I just moved to this state from the east coast and was concerned about being offered a job here. I applied at several hospitals in my area and was offered several jobs. All of the hospitals offer signing on bonuses, tuition reimbursement, and the usual benefits. I was pleasantly surprised. I have settled on a position that was fairly close to me and offered most of the options I was seeking for professional and personal growth. Do not be discouraged about getting a job in California! I was an LPN for several years prior to earning my RN degree and I did enroll before the great cutt-off date. The only things that may hamper your employment quest is the board no longer accepting Excelsior after this date or perhaps not having much experience. Good luck everyone and keep in mind your EC degree is not on some no hire list here. This is my experience--nothing more, nothing less :)

Missy, RN

Well, Lizz, since you've all but called me a liar, I don't guess there is a whole lot more that can be said (BTW, at one point I thought I would need to be going to California, but found out it won't be necessary) so in that regard, I can care less anymore about what California will or won't accept. But I'm not a liar.

Here is a copy of the email I got from the licensing analyst:

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If you were a full time enrolled student at Excelsior College prior to

December 6, 2003, we will accept your application for examination or

endorsement. Eligibility is still based on a full evaluation of your

training. If you enroll in Excelsior College after that date, you must

enroll as an LVN and show proof of completion of 360 hours of clinical at

the registered nurse level.

Respectfully,

Delia Tomas

Licensing Analyst

California State Board of Registered Nursing

*******************************************************************************

If I recall correctly, you have not yet earned your LPN, but you have almost a rabid hatred for Excelsior. I won't mince words, I despise the program, too. After the brutality of the clinical (and the Gong Show mentality)I felt so beaten up I regretted that I didn't go to a *real* nursing school.

But I was told what I was told. You have the name of the analyst maybe you can call her and tell her to stop selling pipe dreams to EC grads since you seem to know so much more than the employees at the BON...I don't know, it really isn't a grave concern of mine anymore.

BTW, we were contemplating a move to Colorado a couple of years ago when I was contemplating using Excelsior and was told by a woman who answered the phone at the BON there that under no circumstances would they honor a degree from Excelsior (this was a woman after your own heart, lizz) because an LPN would have to go through a rigorous amount of training to have the knowledge base an RN would have and this would take years of extra training. Turns out this was a secretary we talked to and none of her information was accurate (though I hear Colorado is about to pass a law requiring EC grads that enroll after January of '06 to have extra clinical hours.

All this turmoil over Excelsior. If it was up to me, there would be no more Excelsior. I know there are people who get totally offended if you don't tout it as the best thing to come along in education, but the stress of those clinicals took ten years off my life. I have not been under such stress since my father died 13 yrs. ago. No school should make a person suffer like that. Maybe I should forget all that and just be elated that the clinical is over, but that isn't the case with me.

Anyway, lizz, whether we like it or not, Excelsior isn't going anywhere for awhile. Of the armies of Excelsior grads out there it seems obvious to me that eventually the school and the boards of nursing in mostr all states will meet somewhere in the middle over this, even if it is not for several years.

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LPNtoRN: You completely misunderstood my post. I don't think anybody is intentionally "lying". But I do think there's a chance that the interpretation of phone calls and such may be biased by each individual's circumstance and desires. I suspect this is why we get completely different accounts of what the board is saying ...

Look at what we have here ... Pedinurse is told one thing, you're told another. This has happened on other threads. That doesn't mean people are lying ... it just means there's a lot of misunderstandings going on.

Just because I tend to rely upon the board's published accounts on the subject doesn't mean I think people are intentionally lying. I just think they may be mistaken.

That email, for example, is so vague that it could be interpreted either way. Maybe that's the board's fault and maybe not, but I don't think there's anything in that email that solidly contradicts the board's published policy at this point.

That email may also be relying upon outdated information. Similar info, for example, was posted on this old thread from December of 2003.

https://allnurses.com/forums/f143/excelsior-no-longer-available-53063.html

However, the board's statement was subsequently revised during the February, 2004 meeting where the concurrent with theory statement was put in it's place, which is what's posted on the board website now.

:coollook:

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After the brutality of the clinical (and the Gong Show mentality)I felt so beaten up I regretted that I didn't go to a *real* nursing school.

Loved the Gong Show comment! It certainly did feel that way for me as well. Someone has got to come up with a better way to transition LVN's into RN's besides EC's twisted, sadistic CPNE.

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Loved the Gong Show comment! It certainly did feel that way for me as well. Someone has got to come up with a better way to transition LVN's into RN's besides EC's twisted, sadistic CPNE.

On a side note ...

Make no mistake ... you get beaten up plenty in traditional school as well. I'm ready to return a few blows at my instructors, actually, but then I probably wouldn't graduate.

We have to go through CPNE type clinical finals at the end of each semester and, it's not much fun either.

:chuckle

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Specializes in Peds stepdown ICU.

Either way the board needs to make this clear. They need to post what can be done , if anything, for EC grads to be licensed here. I only spoke with the people answering phones in the licensing department. LPNtoRN's note does sound like that you can become licensed if you show proof of the 360 hours--it does not mention concurrent with theory.

As for Excelsior, something sure needs to be done differently. I really didn't think the CPNE was overly twisted or sadistic. I thought it was basic nursing using the nursing process. I do think more states are going to require more from them in regards to their clinical. This clinical in no way can predict if you will be a great RN or not...just like traditional nursing school grads aren't always that great. As more states place restrictions, Excelsiors credibility slips a little more.

Missy

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BTW, we were contemplating a move to Colorado a couple of years ago when I was contemplating using Excelsior and was told by a woman who answered the phone at the BON there that under no circumstances would they honor a degree from Excelsior (this was a woman after your own heart, lizz) because an LPN would have to go through a rigorous amount of training to have the knowledge base an RN would have and this would take years of extra training. Turns out this was a secretary we talked to and none of her information was accurate (though I hear Colorado is about to pass a law requiring EC grads that enroll after January of '06 to have extra clinical hours........

Anyway, lizz, whether we like it or not, Excelsior isn't going anywhere for awhile. Of the armies of Excelsior grads out there it seems obvious to me that eventually the school and the boards of nursing in mostr all states will meet somewhere in the middle over this, even if it is not for several years.

Let me clarify what you mean by "clinical hours."

CO, and other CA copycat states like KS, are asking for additional work hours as an RN, not the clinical hours as a student that CA is looking for.

Thankfully, this seems to be the trend seen so far in the CA aftermath rather than states resorting to shutting EC grads out all together.

I also agree that as much as some people want to envision EC being shut out state by state to eventually be wiped off the face of the earth, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

There are indeed, too many of us.

We're teaching in your nursing schools, administrators and managers in your hospitals, and we're serving on boards of nursing across the country.

I'd also like to add that we can't truely appreciate the effect this has had yet because the biggest effect remains to be seen in years to come.

Most of us are still eligible for licensure.

When the post-Dec. 2003 enrollees begin to graduate, start working in other states, and then attempt to get licensed in CA, will be when the big effect happens.

If the nursing shortage continues on it's current track, I wonder how the public will feel when the CA BNE continues shutting out nurses trained, experienced, and ready to go in a wide variety of specialties needing minimal orientation in hopes of instead plugging the hole with fresh green grads who will take years to gain the expertise of the experienced EC grads that are being shut out of the state, or the other popular quick fix to the shortage, to import RN's from overseas.

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As for Excelsior, something sure needs to be done differently. I really didn't think the CPNE was overly twisted or sadistic. I thought it was basic nursing using the nursing process. I do think more states are going to require more from them in regards to their clinical. This clinical in no way can predict if you will be a great RN or not...just like traditional nursing school grads aren't always that great. As more states place restrictions, Excelsiors credibility slips a little more.

Missy

I totally agree that something needs to be done to come to terms between EC and the boards. I'm not seeing any evidence that EC has done nearly enough on it's part to help the situation.

However, asking an experienced RN to go back to school and go through "advanced" medical-surgical or psych clinicals in order to get an RN license in another state is unrealistic and certainly no practical solution.

I'm fine with KS and CO's decision, but this is where EC needs to step up to the plate. It works fine for people endorsing who are already RN's, but if one graduates in CO or KS, how are they going to get 2000 hours as an RN if they aren't eligible for licensure in the first place until they complete this?

This is where EC needs to come in and provide clinical experience to meet state requirements.

As far as the CPNE goes, I'm convinced that it's a game of chance and depends on the patients that you get assigned to and that's a big part of how we view it. I know other things like study and practice time, experience, etc. play into it as well, but.....

In my experience, one PCS would be so easy that if all of mine were that way, I'd be walking away from it saying that it wasn't that bad and that if you study you will do ok. Another PCS would involve many time-consuming activities causing me to barely finish on time shaking like a leaf.

This is where I felt mentally tortured. One examiner and assignment would be so easy while another was a set up for failure from the beginning.

But that's another topic.

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Specializes in Peds stepdown ICU.

I had some hard PCS situations and some easy, but I still found that it was just basic nursing. I guess it really depends on the individual student and how they react to stress. I don't necessarily think it is luck. My CPNE was exactly like the study guide. I feel if you know the study guide and those CE, then you shouldn't have too much difficulty...unless of course your nerves get the best of you. The CPNE hype of being grueling is over rated in my opinion. This, of course, is my personal view of the situation.

Missy

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As far as the CPNE goes, I'm convinced that it's a game of chance and depends on the patients that you get assigned to and that's a big part of how we view it. I know other things like study and practice time, experience, etc. play into it as well, but.....

In my experience, one PCS would be so easy that if all of mine were that way, I'd be walking away from it saying that it wasn't that bad and that if you study you will do ok. Another PCS would involve many time-consuming activities causing me to barely finish on time shaking like a leaf.

This is where I felt mentally tortured. One examiner and assignment would be so easy while another was a set up for failure from the beginning.

But that's another topic.

Boy, you hit the nail on the head with that one, and I'm certain that people who pass and then flippantly assume that those who didn't pass just didn't know their stuff are living on Fantasy Island and don't realize how lucky they are. I, as well as several others I tested with, whether they passed or not, saw with our own eyes that it's all in the luck of the draw and what the CE thinks is important.

Every one of us made mistakes that weekend (they tell you not to discuss the test with the other testers but of course the testers discuss the test) but it was funny to note that some people made the same mistakes but depending on the CE the mistakes were ignored or they were failed.

Most of the CE's were great but one was downright nasty, and after I put in my complaint with the school I learn that I am not the only student to complain about this examiner. I truly hope this examiner will be dismissed from testing students. It was stressful enough then this person has to add to it. Anyway...

what irked me was the labs. I had to repeat two, and of all things it was IM/SQ injection and wound care. I've given hundreds of injections and changed hundreds of dressings but I get in their with a dummy and fall to pieces. I don't care who you are, that right there is a joke, the way those lab stations are run. PCS's were okay. I can understand having that, but those labs...makes me sick to think about it.

Yea, lizz, we know what real nursing school is like, we all went through LPN school the same as anyone else. But the CPNE is a new ball game. Totally brutal, totally uneccessary.

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Specializes in Peds stepdown ICU.
Boy, you hit the nail on the head with that one, and I'm certain that people who pass and then flippantly assume that those who didn't pass just didn't know their stuff are living on Fantasy Island and don't realize how lucky they are. I, as well as several others I tested with, whether they passed or not, saw with our own eyes that it's all in the luck of the draw and what the CE thinks is important.

Every one of us made mistakes that weekend (they tell you not to discuss the test with the other testers but of course the testers discuss the test) but it was funny to note that some people made the same mistakes but depending on the CE the mistakes were ignored or they were failed.

Most of the CE's were great but one was downright nasty, and after I put in my complaint with the school I learn that I am not the only student to complain about this examiner. I truly hope this examiner will be dismissed from testing students. It was stressful enough then this person has to add to it. Anyway...

what irked me was the labs. I had to repeat two, and of all things it was IM/SQ injection and wound care. I've given hundreds of injections and changed hundreds of dressings but I get in their with a dummy and fall to pieces. I don't care who you are, that right there is a joke, the way those lab stations are run. PCS's were okay. I can understand having that, but those labs...makes me sick to think about it.

Yea, lizz, we know what real nursing school is like, we all went through LPN school the same as anyone else. But the CPNE is a new ball game. Totally brutal, totally uneccessary.

That's the problem...stress. You can know the material and the labs like the back of your hand...but that stress can make you fall apart. LPN is very accurate in saying this exam is a new ball game. I was able to manage my stress and have no repeats BUT the stress is major. I had a guy in my group that was totally unprepared and full of negativity--his failure was not knowing the CE and labs. I think Excelsior has to have some rigid rules for the CPNE to catch some students who really aren't meant to go this route to further their education. I am sorry you had such a stressful time! Congrats on your passing. When is your grad date??? You are in for more of the waiting game now. It took a few months after passing CPNE to graduate and a few more weeks to get the ATT.

Missy

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Yea, lizz, we know what real nursing school is like, we all went through LPN school the same as anyone else. But the CPNE is a new ball game. Totally brutal, totally uneccessary.

I'm not trying to say that one clinical test is more brutal than the other. As you say, it largely depends on the instructor. Our class has been broken up in groups to test and, as it turns out, everybody in the first group was failed at one station by one particular instructor. I guess this happens no matter what school you attend. My turn comes up Wednesday .... and I'm so looking forward to it ... not.

:chuckle

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If the nursing shortage continues on it's current track, I wonder how the public will feel when the CA BNE continues shutting out nurses trained, experienced, and ready to go in a wide variety of specialties needing minimal orientation in hopes of instead plugging the hole with fresh green grads who will take years to gain the expertise of the experienced EC grads that are being shut out of the state, or the other popular quick fix to the shortage, to import RN's from overseas.

I don't know if the public is aware of this or not. But, if it did become more of a public issue, I'm pretty sure the California Nurses Association would fight it, like they did the last time. And they do carry some clout with the public, as evidenced by their recent defeat of the governator's propositions and, his efforts to roll back portions of the ratio law.

:coollook:

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