excelsior accepted in ?? states - page 3

hi all just wonderin if anyone knew which states do or don't accept excelsior college? I think calif doesn't and colorodo is about to not accept them after the first of the year but other than that I... Read More

  1. by   Drysolong
    Okay. I'm thoroughly confused after reading all the posts. But it's allright, because I know that where I live (Georgia) currently I will be able to get reciprocity after getting an ADN from Excelsior. My problem is that I'm originally from California and may one day want to go back. I graduate from LPN school March, 2006 and have just about made up my mind to go through Excelsior. Because of the California issue, I am somewhat wavering between a LPN-RN(ADN) bridge program and Excelsior.

    I have a question that was somewhat unrelated, but your posts have got me to thinking. Is it possible to complete all Excelsior requirements and substitute the CPNE with a college course? My question is more geared to my fear of taking and failing the CPNE, moreso that state eligibility, but it kind of goes together. Thanks

    PS Also, I noticed in information that Indiana State University publishes for their online LPN-RN (BSN) program, they say no applicable in California, Illinois, and Kansas
  2. by   FocusRN
    Quote from Drysolong
    Okay. I'm thoroughly confused after reading all the posts. But it's allright, because I know that where I live (Georgia) currently I will be able to get reciprocity after getting an ADN from Excelsior. My problem is that I'm originally from California and may one day want to go back. I graduate from LPN school March, 2006 and have just about made up my mind to go through Excelsior. Because of the California issue, I am somewhat wavering between a LPN-RN(ADN) bridge program and Excelsior.

    I have a question that was somewhat unrelated, but your posts have got me to thinking. Is it possible to complete all Excelsior requirements and substitute the CPNE with a college course? My question is more geared to my fear of taking and failing the CPNE, moreso that state eligibility, but it kind of goes together. Thanks

    PS Also, I noticed in information that Indiana State University publishes for their online LPN-RN (BSN) program, they say no applicable in California, Illinois, and Kansas
    Me too, well about the CPNE thing. I know that I'll plenty clinical experience when I enroll in EC but I would rather pay like $600 for a course to replace the CPNE, that pay over $1000, take it and fail, for a critical element such as putting on gloves (not that specifically, but ya'll know what I mean).
  3. by   Sheri257
    Quote from traumahawk99
    and you'd think california would focus on an alternative way to credential nurses who graduate from ec, pass the nclex, and practice in another state for a period without problems. after all, california is screaming for nurses. to deny someone (for example, a critical care certified rn practicing in another state) licensure in california is simply irresponsible and ego driven. if someone's health has to suffer because a nurse wasn't available, it would only be poetic justice if that someone was a board member who made this decision.
    And EC's decision to allow MA's into the program wasn't irresponsible? EC didn't disallow MA's until several months after the California decision. EC also showed no interest in meeting the board's requirements. They wanted to make all of the clinical hours voluntary. It was ridiculous. Who's being irresponsible? You've got to admit that EC is at fault for at least some of this.

    As for EC RN's practicing in other states ... California is not interested in eroding the education standards by licensing RN's who attend schools that don't meet those standards. You may think upholding higher education standards is irresponsible and ego driven, but that just doesn't fly here. If people don't like it, they can work elsewhere because, we like higher standards in California. That's why we have a ratio law and other states don't. Those higher standards are also the reason why RN's from around the country want to work here.

    It always comes down to the same thing: EC students want special treatment. They want all the privileges and benefits that come with a nursing degree without meeting the standards of nursing education. And then they scream bloody murder when California says no ... you have to play by the same rules as everybody else. God forbid that a state board should enforce education standards that apply to every other nursing school in the country. Yep ... that's really irresponsible.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Dec 14, '05
  4. by   FocusRN
    Quote from lizz
    And EC's decision to allow MA's into the program wasn't irresponsible? EC didn't disallow MA's until several months after the California decision. EC also showed no interest in meeting the board's requirements. They wanted to make all of the clinical hours voluntary. It was ridiculous. Who's being irresponsible? You've got to admit that EC is at fault for at least some of this.

    As for EC RN's practicing in other states ... California is not interested in eroding the education standards by licensing RN's who attend schools that don't meet those standards. You may think upholding higher education standards is irresponsible and ego driven, but that just doesn't fly here. If people don't like it, they can work elsewhere because, we like higher standards in California. That's why we have a ratio law and other states don't. Those higher standards are also the reason why RN's from around the country want to work here.

    It always comes down to the same thing: EC students want special treatment. They want all the privileges and benefits that come with a nursing degree without meeting the standards of nursing education. And then they scream bloody murder when California says no ... you have to play by the same rules as everybody else. God forbid that a state board should enforce education standards that apply to every other nursing school in the country. Yep ... that's really irresponsible.

    Ohh please, RN's from around the country do want to work in Cali, as an agency nurse when ya'll go on strike so they can get paid double maybe. Hope this makes sense to every one (It didn't to me at first), but this is what my husband would call repped out. As for EC's and MA's, in my state and a few others that I know of a lot of employers hire MA's to do the job of an LPN; ads will say something like LPN or MA needed as office manager $19/hr. In addition many schools here have MA program in some theory and in clinical hours as LPN programs. That doesn't make them equivalent, it just means you should research EC's reasoning for instating MA admission in the first place. Cali's BON in my op is like most people are, it is just human nature; we out rule, and discredit that of which we don't know in any way that we can. Yea it sucks but that is the way it is. In my opinion I will never judge a nurse's competence in her/his career unless I have seen her/him practice, no matter where she/he graduated from. This ideal should be upheld by all BON's from students from every nursing school in the country. Each person she be evaluated on his/her own merits and not that of the school from which he/she graduated. And on that note I would like to say that I don't think this will be happening anytime soon, so we should play by the current rules in play by colleges and BON's across the nation. I is universally known, that regional accreditation is used as national for acceptance. It has only been until recently that schools, and BON's have decided to enforce their so called "right to transfer or accept courses or degrees", with the popping up of lots of distance learning program. How long has EC existed? Like since the '70's or 80's right. But when did all of this controversy start? Basically in the age of the internet and distance learning. So how many Cali nurse have been practicing as a grad from Regents or EC, doing there thing as a d*mn good nurse? EC has graduated what like 90k nurses. You do the math. But back to the point if you have a school that has regional accreditation, and NLN accreditation what more do you really need. Those credentials DO mean something. Or is it that those credentials only mean something hen they come from a traditional campus based program? Come on let's get over our egos. I mean do you have a problem with putting your food in the fridge? I think not. Well once upon a time there was no fridge to speak of so food was salted down. With time come more knowledge, technology, and plain convenience. Simple as that. And yes I said convenience. Because no matter how much I love nursing I refuse to give up my live, and my family basically to go to school for it. Once upon a time that was the only option, but now I can actually work and spend time with my husband, son, and my little one to be. I kind of like that idea. Will I let my future patients suffer for it? NO! That is because going to EC is not just a quick and easy way to being an RN.Take a look at the examination guides, and books for the EC Nursing Concepts exams. They are nursing courses with theory and clinical just like in a traditional school, but for the fact that you study when best for you, and schedule your final when it is best for you. What will verify your clinical, well the CPNE of course. Its your responsibility, to know your skills, not just for the test but for life. I thought that was automatically expected of adults. And if you don't keep skills up, whether in EC or not you'll fail. If your at EC you fail your CPNE, and lose $1600, and go home knowing it is time to get on the grind. If you are in a trad school, you'll pass through school, pass the NCLEX, and fail on a patient.
  5. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Dream_Nurse
    What will verify your clinical, well the CPNE of course. Its your responsibility, to know your skills, not just for the test but for life. I thought that was automatically expected of adults. And if you don't keep skills up, whether in EC or not you'll fail. If your at EC you fail your CPNE, and lose $1600, and go home knowing it is time to get on the grind.

    If you are in a trad school, you'll pass through school, pass the NCLEX, and fail on a patient.
    There seems to be a big myth among EC students that we're not tested on clinical skills. We're actually tested on clinical skills at the end of each semester. You have to pass four clinical final exams at my school.

    Since CPNE is only a three day test, it only covers about half of what we cover in clinical finals. This was a big issue with the board when they looked at CPNE since it doesn't test for specialties such as ICU, telemetry, psych, geriatrics, advanced med surg, etc.

    CPNE certainly verfies some skills, but it doesn't cover all the clinical skills required by the board. So I ask you ... which system is failing the patient? The system that requires the clinical hours and tests for all the required skills, or the system that doesn't? It's not about ego, it's about the patient.

    Everybody asks why California isn't doing something to accomodate EC. My question is why isn't EC doing anything to accomodate the state's concerns. There's got to be ways to meet the clinical requirements with flexible schedules that would allow people to work and support their families. Yet, EC hasn't done anything in the last two years to try to accomplish this, even though it would probably help them with the other state boards as well. All they've wanted to do is keep the status quo.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Dec 15, '05
  6. by   suzanne4
    All I can add to this is that there are programs out there for the bridge program that are accepted in all fifty states. You need to do your homework, but they are only for nurses that already have a LPN license in hand.
  7. by   traumahawk99
    Quote from Dream_Nurse
    Well, well, well. Acutually I live in Louisiana (from New Orleans, residing in Baton Rouge because of Katrina) But any way I am planniing on going the EC route for paramedics. I just wanted to inform you that in my state it is true that you will only get initial RN licensure if you were first an LPN as a graduate of EC, but wait. If you were'nt an LPN, the BON requires six months of experience. Meaning (and I have had this verified by the board's director of education), you go to another state sit for NCLEX and work for six months, or go to another state sit for NCLEX, come back to louisiana and work for the VA, or another health care facility that will hire you temporarily with out state licensure and work there for 6 months, or you can go to another state take the NCLEX, and get reciprocity here which the board will allow. Why is that way, well in my opinion just as someone else said to give lip service to the traditional schools, and boy do they give it.

    Oh, and if you don't believe me, or believe that I am giving misinformation call the BON and ask. I called in June, and and the call was very informative.
    exactly.. you ACTUALLY CALLED the board of nursing and got the straight scoop on reciprocity. it would be nice if everyone would do the same, so it would cut down on misinformation.
  8. by   traumahawk99
    Quote from lizz
    As for EC RN's practicing in other states ... California is not interested in eroding the education standards by licensing RN's who attend schools that don't meet those standards. You may think upholding higher education standards is irresponsible and ego driven, but that just doesn't fly here. If people don't like it, they can work elsewhere because, we like higher standards in California. That's why we have a ratio law and other states don't. Those higher standards are also the reason why RN's from around the country want to work here.
    first, i couldn't possibly care any less about working in california. i find the idea that it's a mecca in nursing is comical. "we like higher standards"? who is "we"? are all the nurses in california of the same mind? i seriously doubt it. this is a small group of people who are power tripping. irresponsible for denying excelsior nurses? you bet!

    and i honestly think the nln is much more an authority on nursing education than the california board. the fact that the nln has recognized that there is another way to skin the cat is to their credit. these are dedicated education professionals, who deserve much respect and admiration. they've been at this for a long time. the industry needs workers, and this is the way to supply quality workers. it is largely a waste of time to drag an lpn or paramedic through nursing school clinicals like a newbie. yes, a waste!

    nursing school only gives you exposure to hospital environments. it doesn't churn out fresh critical care nurses infinitely qualified to practice. it doesn't turn out nurses qualified to work in any specialty unit. it turns out green, rank amatuers. beginners. so you are only a qualified beginner, and you'll start in med surge, just like an excelsior graduate. you will learn on the job, and your achievement will depend on your ability and commitment, not on which school you became a beginner with.

    i'm extremely happy to have a paramedic education. i know infinitely more about cardiology, airway management and emergency medicine than a new, green nurse. i can jump on a code and work it like this beginner couldn't dream of doing. you can't even make a serious comparison. what is it that the green nurse has over me, now that i've gotten the education that will allow me to pass the nclex? does she follow care plans better? does she assess better? does she have a better understanding of anions and cations? does she know more about receptors? does she know more about disease processes? if something serious happens to you, you'd better hope it's me... not some green nurse who works you.

    yes, there were mistakes in the beginning of this program. that's the nature of trying something new. it's been responsibly addressed, based on evidence. there's not a program in the country that turns out as many nurses as excelsior. not even a close second. why isn't there a huge uproar in the industry about all these unqualified, incompetent nurses? why do state boards allow reciprocity after giving lip service to the nursing schools? why isn't there a problem in new york? because the reality is that the excelsior program is turning out well qualifed nurses.
  9. by   RN34TX
    Quote from lizz
    And EC's decision to allow MA's into the program wasn't irresponsible? EC didn't disallow MA's until several months after the California decision. EC also showed no interest in meeting the board's requirements. They wanted to make all of the clinical hours voluntary. It was ridiculous. Who's being irresponsible? You've got to admit that EC is at fault for at least some of this.

    As for EC RN's practicing in other states ... California is not interested in eroding the education standards by licensing RN's who attend schools that don't meet those standards. You may think upholding higher education standards is irresponsible and ego driven, but that just doesn't fly here. If people don't like it, they can work elsewhere because, we like higher standards in California. That's why we have a ratio law and other states don't. Those higher standards are also the reason why RN's from around the country want to work here.

    It always comes down to the same thing: EC students want special treatment. They want all the privileges and benefits that come with a nursing degree without meeting the standards of nursing education. And then they scream bloody murder when California says no ... you have to play by the same rules as everybody else. God forbid that a state board should enforce education standards that apply to every other nursing school in the country. Yep ... that's really irresponsible.

    Lizz,
    I realize that this is a highly emotional issue for you and really do try to understand your perspective as a nursing student.
    We agree on some things regarding EC and we also agree to disagree on other things. Fine.
    But I'm going to ask that you refrain from offensive comments like:

    "California is not interested in eroding the education standards by licensing RN's who attend schools that don't meet those standards.You may think upholding higher education standards is irresponsible and ego driven, but that just doesn't fly here."

    First of all, they've long been licensing EC grads for 30 years, so apparantly it did indeed "fly" in CA for a long time, and somehow in that 30 years the "unsafe" EC grads went unnoticed by the state, BNE, hospital administrations, etc. but suddenly became an issue in recent years.

    The fact that EC's program did not match the standards of CA RN schools also slipped through the cracks for 30 years, but now you want to label them as doing the responsible thing by putting a stop to it?
    So for the previous 30 years was the BNE was being irresponsible?
    That's an awfully long time to be irresponsible and have been issuing RN licenses to so many "substandard" EC grads.
    All of these moves and decisions that are apparantly coming from a BNE who's only interest is in protecting the public rather than being a puppet with the strings being pulled by powerful hospital corporations and unions.

    No politics or ego driven motives here.
    It's all about upholding CA's educational standards...... except for the fact that they forgot to enforce it for 30 years. Small oversight.

    When I started as a new RN, all of the others in the internship came from traditional programs. Many had a hard time catching on and many had to extend their orientations beyond the standard 12-16 weeks. Some even had to leave and transfer to less acute areas.

    I didn't degrade their educational choices and make snap judgements like thinking that all of their clinical rotations were a joke because they still didn't churn out a grad prepared for the ICU RN role while I finished earlier with relatively minimal difficulty.
    So please refrain from referring to EC as eroding CA's standards.

    "It always comes down to the same thing: EC students want special treatment. They want all the privileges and benefits that come with a nursing degree without meeting the standards of nursing education. And then they scream bloody murder when California says no ... you have to play by the same rules as everybody else. God forbid that a state board should enforce education standards that apply to every other nursing school in the country. Yep ... that's really irresponsible."

    That's not true. I did meet standards in the CA BNE's opinion at both the time I'd enrolled and graduated. Same goes for every other state board I called at that time.
    I didn't ask for special treatment than that of other new grads, no one had any problem with it in those days. Everyone in your state at that time had the freedom to choose their route of RN education, no one got special treatment.

    Instead of blindly following the CA BNE and CNA's recent rulings and opinions as if they couldn't possibly be wrong in anything they say or have done, isn't it time you stopped ignoring those of us EC grads who miraculously became good RN's anyway despite our "substandard" educations?
    We're here. And by some twist of irony, I often wonder how many EC grads are going to some day be your preceptors or managers by the time you graduate and start working.

    I'm not asking for special treatment. I'm asking that the CA BNE stop ignoring us grads who are doing fine as RN's and enforcing rigid rules that may just need to be changed in the first place about everyone completing X number of clinical rotations, regardless of background or ability.
    Don't you think it's time that maybe we start to evaluate the actual necessity of these clinicals if so many of us have been practicing as RN's for many years without problems despite not getting all of the clinical rotations required by current CA law?
    Last edit by RN34TX on Dec 16, '05
  10. by   traumahawk99
    steering this thread back to the topic, exactly which states won't allow reciprocity for excelsior? if anyone wants to name a state, other than california, kansas, or illinois (2 year rule)... please, call the state board first and ask before you put misinformation here. i'll also call that state board and post the results here. this way, there won't be any pseudoinformation that would discourage people who would otherwise obtain an ASN from excelsior, such as what's already been posted in this thread. we'll have it straight from the horses mouth, not the other end .
  11. by   Sheri257
    Quote from traumahawk99
    nursing school only gives you exposure to hospital environments. it doesn't churn out fresh critical care nurses infinitely qualified to practice. it doesn't turn out nurses qualified to work in any specialty unit. it turns out green, rank amatuers. beginners. so you are only a qualified beginner, and you'll start in med surge, just like an excelsior graduate. you will learn on the job, and your achievement will depend on your ability and commitment, not on which school you became a beginner with.

    i'm extremely happy to have a paramedic education. i know infinitely more about cardiology, airway management and emergency medicine than a new, green nurse. i can jump on a code and work it like this beginner couldn't dream of doing. you can't even make a serious comparison.
    And you think the California BON is on an ego trip? I didn't realize that you were such an expert on traditional grad training, performance and nursing in general. Especially since you haven't attended a traditional RN program and you're not an RN yet.

    I'm sure traditional education needs to improve. If I had my way, we'd be in the hospital two days a week instead of one. But there just isn't enough time to get everything done as it is. Even LVN's who've had these clinicals and classes before are struggling and two of them flunked out of my program yesterday. Still, even with the limitations, some clinicals have got to be better than no clinicals at all. EC is going to the other extreme with only the CPNE as a test of clinical ability, especially with non-LVN's.

    But you're missing a key point here: at least some traditional programs do go out of their way to give students more hands on experience above and beyond the clinical requirements.

    Many of us will not be "green, rank amateur beginners" when we graduate because we participate in the school's extern program, which allows us to work at various hospitals. I worked as an extern during the summer, and I'll start with another hospital during the holidays.

    I hear what RN34TX is saying about the ICU, although I'm curious as to whether this happened in CA or TX. I wouldn't be surprized if some people might have problems but, I can say that I've already been offered a job in ICU when I graduate. Apparently they haven't had too many problems orienting new grads because I know quite a few people from my program that went straight to ICU.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Dec 17, '05
  12. by   RN34TX
    Quote from lizz
    I hear what RN34TX is saying about the ICU, although I'm curious as to whether this happened in CA or TX. I wouldn't be surprized if some people might have problems but, I can say that I've already been offered a job in ICU when I graduate. Apparently they haven't had too many problems orienting new grads because I know quite a few people from my program that went straight to ICU.

    My point was not to say that new grads are not appropriate for ICU, some do believe this but I do not.
    I was saying that SOME new grads had problems, like any students from any program working at any hospital.
    My point was that after graduating from EC and wondering how much of a difference it would have made had I attended a traditional LVN to RN program, I ended up having even less faith than before that it would have made me a better nurse going through the various rotations and that i was "missing something."
    I saw too many "traditional" grads not doing well and it cemented in my mind that all of the hype about the necessity of clinical rotations for LVN's becoming RN's really wouldn't have helped me so EC was the better choice for me.
    At the same time, I didn't dog the traditional grads that weren't doing well saying that it was because they had substandard educations.
    I've been a nurse long enough to know that there is a lot more to it than that.
    My experience was in TX but I'm curious as to what difference that would make to you.
    I hope that your question wasn't a gateway for you to start going on about how much higher the standards are at the CA RN schools than they are in TX and that the same situation wouldn't happen in CA because the RN schools are so much better there.
  13. by   Sheri257
    Quote from RN34TX
    Don't you think it's time that maybe we start to evaluate the actual necessity of these clinicals if so many of us have been practicing as RN's for many years without problems despite not getting all of the clinical rotations required by current CA law?
    I do see your point here and it is a valid point. But here's why I think the board has a problem with it. It's not just traditional vs. distance education.

    Basically other states like Kansas and Colorado are saying ... we're not sure these people are safe, so let them practice somewhere else to be sure before we'll take them. But I just don't think the California board wants to even go there: let's find out if these people are safe after the fact. That's not a very safe policy. And if you allow EC, you are essentially endorsing that policy.

    For someone like yourself who was an experienced LPN, a lot of this probably doesn't apply. And maybe it's not fair to lump someone like yourself in with all the other EC students but, that's the potential problem with EC lumping all of these people together, experienced or not, with their broad criteria.

    Traditional programs have their flaws, no doubt. And traditional programs have had their share of new grads who have killed patients. But at least there are some safeguards.

    Case in point: We have had instances where students did do really dangerous things in the hospital and they were kicked out the program. These were things that would only have been picked up by observing students in the hospital, not just with clinical tests. At least someone is watching them for two years to see if they will do something dangerous.

    Do they catch it all the time? No. But they do catch a lot of the problems. When dangerous practices have been caught after the fact, the hospital reported this to the school and clinical policies were changed to try to address these problems. Where are these kinds of safeguards in the EC program? Do you wait until they're RN's to find out?

    I'm curious ... with your experience ... are you really comfortable with non-experienced LPN's fresh out of school ... or non-LPN's with no nursing experience whatsoever hitting the floor with only the CPNE exam to their credit? Do you really think it's wise to put patient's lives in these people's hands and find out whether or not they're safe practionioners after the fact?

    I just think the board is really uncomfortable with endorsing that kind of system in any form or fashion, which is why they said no to the whole thing.

    Last edit by Sheri257 on Dec 17, '05

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