Any ADN-BSN programs without ridiculous papers? - pg.22 | allnurses

Any ADN-BSN programs without ridiculous papers? - page 22

Taking my 1st ADN-BSN class. Thinking of dropping it with only 1 week left. 1st class and already a 6 to 8 page paper. A concept analysis of 1 of the following 4 words: Caring, Hope, Trust, or... Read More

  1. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    1
    PMFB, you have stated countless times how terrible your program was in general,
    *** No, I don't think I have.

    and those of us who have been in excellent BSN programs have challenged that idea with our own experiences and you have had some form of, "yeah, but....." to shoot us down every time. Clearly we have had vastly differing experiences that left us with completely different ideas on the subject.
    I actually think I went to one of the best BSN programs in the county and that it is representative of the better BSN programs. However I also feel that is like saying one is the best surfer in all of Wisconsin. It may be true but you haven't said much.

    My class was presented in lecture format, with 4 exams in total with one project where we selected a research article and we dissected it in a presentation in front of the class. My class wasn't a "this is how you research stuff" class with a tour of a card catalog. It was a "here is how to critically appraise a research study so you know whether it is any good or not" class. Some parts of the class were stupidly easy. Other parts were very challenging. Overall, when it comes to nursing class in general, yes, I was glad for what felt like an easier A. But I still learned a lot and I was still challenged.
    You don't see the point I am always making. I am sure it is my fault for not making it clearly. Don't you see that it doesn't matter how great your class was and how much you learned? So long as there are programs out there that are a joke, where the level of discourse is ridiculous, your degree will be devalued.
    A BSN behind a nurses name should mean something. However it doesn't. Sure it may make it easier to get a job but it doesn't tell anyone anything about your education.

    Since this class, I have moved on to do my own research (review of literature) for an independent study, and what I've taken from my research class is the ability to look at studies and say, "this is junk", and thank goodness for that.
    I came to my program with that ability. I agree that if you were incapable of recognizing a junk study or paper prior to your BSN class then thank goodness you took that class.

    Just some food for thought. Clearly your class just sucked, but that doesn't mean that they all do.
    Don't you see that it doesn't matter?

    Mine was pretty fantastic, even on the days when I felt overwhelmed by my course load in general. And all of the writing I have done has refined me. Will it improve the nurse I will be? Well, I won't know until I get there. I think it does largely depend on your goals in nursing. I have no desire to be med/surg, and can see to a degree how the volume of writing seems silly if that is your goal after graduation.
    Wait a second! Are you saying that you are in a pre-licensure BSN program? If so then that changes everything and discussing this with you is a waste of time.
    Of course you had difficulty interpreting studies! The issue I am addressing is the experienced ADN RN who is being made to take (and pay for) these redundant classes.

    However, how about areas of medicine and nursing practice that are rapidly changing, such as neuro? Doesn't it help to understand the studies directly, rather than someone else's interpretation of them?
    That is a HUGE subject change! Your are making a false presupposition that without a BSN research class one can't understand the studies directly. This is very unlikely since the ADN education pretty much covers the same material as the BSN.
    That there is value in understanding studies is so obvious a point as to not need mentioning.
    redhead_NURSE98! likes this.
  2. Visit  ixchel profile page
    2
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    If so then that changes everything and discussing this with you is a waste of time.
    Tell me, how is the air up there?

    I may be a first degree BSN, but my traditional program is paralleled in the ADN-BSN program and there are no classes they take that I don't also take. Our local ADN program does not include a research class, which is specifically what this particular conversation had turned toward (the merits of including a research class). I'm glad you learned everything you needed to know on the job, but again, I stress to you that faculty can't simply hand you a degree just because you say you know everything. They have to verify it, and presently the best method they have is through applying the knowledge via exams and written work. I don't care how much better you think you are than me. That IS the way it is.

    And yes, you did complain about the quality of your program earlier in this thread, and no, I won't go find those posts because this thread of 27 pages long. What we DO agree in is the issue that the quality of one program can reflect on the degree as a whole. That is definitely unfortunate and frustrating. I've worked my butt off thus far to earn this degree and the idea that it might be undermined by the perceived quality of the degree is disheartening. You will never be able to convince me, though, that writing and research are a bad thing.

    As I understand it.... The perceived difference between ADN and BSN that I have encountered is that BSN is more theory focused, whereas ADN is more skills focused. This is one of many reasons why I chose BSN right out of the gate. What else would you have the ADN do to bridge to BSN? Learn the skills all over again? I think THAT would be the larger tragedy and waste of effort.

    So, since you seem to enjoy describing everything that is wrong, tell me - how would you do it right? I'm genuinely curious to hear what solutions you might bring to the table.
    tokmom and elkpark like this.
  3. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    6
    Tell me, how is the air up there?
    My point was that you are in no position to make an argument on the topic. In the same way I personally have no experience with pre licensure BSN programs designed to take people off the street and make them competent entry level nurses. The two are very different things.

    I may be a first degree BSN, but my traditional program is paralleled in the ADN-BSN program and there are no classes they take that I don't also take. Our local ADN program does not include a research class, which is specifically what this particular conversation had turned toward (the merits of including a research class).
    The presence or lack of a research class doesn't tell you anything about the research education provided. For example in my area the ADN programs do not include a specific pharmacology class. That doesn't mean the students don't learn the same pharmacology as students in other programs. They do because they have to.

    I'm glad you learned everything you needed to know on the job,
    *** Your statement above is pretty out here. I certainly have not yet learned everything I need to know. It is an ongoing process that will last my lifetime. Claiming to have learned the basics, as covered in any undergrad class, is a very different thing than claiming to know "everything".

    but again, I stress to you that faculty can't simply hand you a degree just because you say you know everything.
    Who said they should hand me or anyone else a degree? Who would want that? What I want is for the BSN to be changed to a rigorous and meaningful. I don't want to be handed a degree, I want to work hard for it, I want to be challenged, I want to LEARN. These are things not happening currently. I don't want experienced nurses to feel like they got dumber when they return to school.

    I don't care how much better you think you are than me. That IS the way it is.
    Don't take things so personal. I don't know you, I don't think I am better than you, nothing I have said would lead any reasonable person to that conclusion. I am well aware of the way things are and I wan to change them.

    And yes, you did complain about the quality of your program earlier in this thread,

    Maybe as a representative of BSN programs. As I said I believe I went to among the better BSN programs.

    T
    hat is definitely unfortunate and frustrating. I've worked my butt off thus far to earn this degree and the idea that it might be undermined by the perceived quality of the degree is disheartening.
    Yes I imagine it is. However your are mistaken if you feel there is only one problem programs out there.

    You will never be able to convince me, though, that writing and research are a bad thing.
    Uh, why would I try to convince you of something I don't believe?

    As I understand it.... The perceived difference between ADN and BSN that I have encountered is that BSN is more theory focused, whereas ADN is more skills focused.
    I think that if that perception was ever true, it isn't true now and hasn't been for a long time. The truth is there is isn't enough difference between them to tell in most cases.

    This is one of many reasons why I chose BSN right out of the gate. What else would you have the ADN do to bridge to BSN? Learn the skills all over again? I think THAT would be the larger tragedy and waste of effort.
    The nursing portion of an RN to BSN programs pretty much mimics what is already taught in the ADN programs.

    So, since you seem to enjoy describing everything that is wrong, tell me - how would you do it right? I'm genuinely curious to hear what solutions you might bring to the table.
    Sure, first get rid of the online only, for profit diploma mills. That is not to say that a great education can not be obtained via online, I know it can. Second make the BSN about the study of advanced physiology, pharmacology, psychology, and pathophysiology. Eliminate the stupid and unhelpful nursing diagnosis and nursing theory. The BSN should be earned in the research lab and at the bedside. Not writing silly paper after silly paper. Of course a professional writing class should be included so that nurses learn to express themselves properly. Design the BSN to be prepared nurses to be full partners in the care team, design it to provide an education that would justify the expansion of nurses scope of practice.
  4. Visit  ThePrincessBride profile page
    5
    I had to write ten to twenty page papers in HIGH SCHOOL. Six to eight pages is nothing.

    And if you managed to get a bachelor's and master's without writing papers, I strongly question the quality of the schools you attended and would demand a refund.
    llg, MrChicagoRN, elkpark, and 2 others like this.
  5. Visit  OCNRN63 profile page
    3
    ​Having observed what my co-workers went through to go from RN->BSN, I am not interested in doing silly posters and other projects. I'm a nurse, not a 5 year old in an arts and crafts class.
    redhead_NURSE98!, morte, and PMFB-RN like this.
  6. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    1
    Quote from ThePrincessBride
    I had to write ten to twenty page papers in HIGH SCHOOL. Six to eight pages is nothing.

    And if you managed to get a bachelor's and master's without writing papers, I strongly question the quality of the schools you attended and would demand a refund.
    Speaking for myself, I dont' object to writing papers, it's the kind of papers that bothers me. Doing research papers on evidenced based practice issues, or pharm or patho would be fine.
    The assingment I got to put a golf ball in the dominant hand, then put a sock over it and keep it that way all day then write a paper about what it was like to have to learn to do thing differently was abserd.
    redhead_NURSE98! likes this.
  7. Visit  ThePrincessBride profile page
    0
    What class was it for?

    Quote from PMFB-RN
    Speaking for myself, I dont' object to writing papers, it's the kind of papers that bothers me. Doing research papers on evidenced based practice issues, or pharm or patho would be fine.
    The assingment I got to put a golf ball in the dominant hand, then put a sock over it and keep it that way all day then write a paper about what it was like to have to learn to do thing differently was abserd.
  8. Visit  redhead_NURSE98! profile page
    2
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    I don't think there is. I think the profession side will not rest until they have driven every last "trade" minded nurse out of the field. We see examples of this often.
    Agreed. And patient safety will suffer for it.
    nursel56 and PMFB-RN like this.
  9. Visit  redhead_NURSE98! profile page
    2
    Quote from OCNRN63
    ​Having observed what my co-workers went through to go from RN->BSN, I am not interested in doing silly posters and other projects. I'm a nurse, not a 5 year old in an arts and crafts class.
    OMG AGREED. We did group poster projects and they used them at a health fair for the hospital we were associated with, for the nurses to come over and claim some CEU's. Hey, no problem, I love being a presenter for continuing education classes. Only thing is, I used to get paid for it as a lawyer, so I really don't want to be your free provider now. And the glue makes my fingers sticky.
    OCNRN63 and nursel56 like this.
  10. Visit  redhead_NURSE98! profile page
    1
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    The assingment I got to put a golf ball in the dominant hand, then put a sock over it and keep it that way all day then write a paper about what it was like to have to learn to do thing differently was abserd.
    Actually that sounds like fun to me, over the original subject of this thread which was a 6-8 pager on one word - er sorry, "concept."
    nursel56 likes this.
  11. Visit  subee profile page
    4
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    Speaking for myself, I dont' object to writing papers, it's the kind of papers that bothers me. Doing research papers on evidenced based practice issues, or pharm or patho would be fine.
    The assingment I got to put a golf ball in the dominant hand, then put a sock over it and keep it that way all day then write a paper about what it was like to have to learn to do thing differently was abserd.
    "Abserd?" Really? There should plenty to say about what it's like for a stroke victim to learn how to live without one arm. If you're a student, you probably haven't really gotten it down why an incident in the right brain causes paresis in the left side. Do you remember your anatomy on that? How does the brain "compensate" for the dead part of the brain and create new neural pathways to re-create the skill in another hand? LOTS of places to go with this. Being able or organize our thoughts on paper helps us be rational, thinking people.
    poppycat, OCNRN63, elkpark, and 1 other like this.
  12. Visit  redhead_NURSE98! profile page
    2
    Quote from subee
    "Abserd?" Really? There should plenty to say about what it's like for a stroke victim to learn how to live without one arm. If you're a student, you probably haven't really gotten it down why an incident in the right brain causes paresis in the left side. Do you remember your anatomy on that? How does the brain "compensate" for the dead part of the brain and create new neural pathways to re-create the skill in another hand? LOTS of places to go with this. Being able or organize our thoughts on paper helps us be rational, thinking people.

    Hahahaha know your audience, is all I can say.
    OCNRN63 and PMFB-RN like this.
  13. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    0
    "Abserd?" Really?
    Or absurd for you Americans.


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