Acceptance of Distance/Online Degrees by Other Colleges and Universities

[macmagick]

I have taken online classes through California State University, Dominguez Hills working on my BSN (I am a diploma RN). I agree with others who have commented the coursework is not easy and I too have written many papers which are required for these online courses. I mention this because when I recieve an "A" or "B" from an online course, I feel I have earned it and that I am taking and passing courses at a collegiate level. It has come to my attention that some colleges and universities frown upon a degree earned via distance or online learning. I guess I do not understand? If I am attending a college or university "online" or via "distance learning" and it is an accredited university or college, doesn't the accreditation and my course grades speak for themselves? I am posting this thread because after I achieve my BSN, I do plan to apply to a MSN program. While I realize MSN programs are also available online and through distance education, I would hope that my earned BSN from an accredited college or university would not be challenaged or become a hindrance because I earned it "Online" or by "Distance Learning". I would be interested in hearing from others who have obtained their degrees online or through distance learning and who have gone on to obtain MSN or higher degrees at other Universities or Colleges.

[mona b RN, BSN, RN]

Yeah, I read it. And I strongly disagree with it. Just because an instructor allows you to refer to notes during a quiz/exam, doesn't make it right. I still think it's cheating.

If the instructors allowed students to use books and notes at my school, the instructors would be thrown out of school along with the students.

What's the point of being tested on the material if you're allowed to refer to the material?

That's just cheating in a different form. I don't care how much you have to study beforehand ... oh gee, you don't have time to look up all the answers so you have to study and know some of the material beforehand.

That's ridiculous. I can't believe that any legitimate nursing program, online or offline, would allow this. Even if it's "allowed" it shouldn't be. It's outrageous.

Interesting viewpoint.

[mona b RN, BSN, RN]

Interesting viewpoint.

Hmmmm...rote memorization or critical thinking? Which skill would I rather develop? My vote is for critical thinking.

[RN34TX]

Well I live in CA , the schools out here are not that accommodating. Most schools that offer evening classes are private, well if you have kids and a fulltime job you can not afford loans,etc. I think its fair to say most people do search for these schools, but when unsuccessful they have other options. I have been a LVN x 8 years, make very good money, so I can not afford to give up my fulltime job. I have worked many places so I think I am qualified to say that most RN's I have spoken to admit they did not recieve the proper training, thats why alot hospitals offer New Grade Programs. How can a teacher teach all her/his students. Its usually the student that finds a nice nurse at the hospital to allow the student to get hands on experience. Traditional schools also have low passing rates. I am enrolled at Excelsior their passing rate is as high as CA traditional schools if not higher. So what does that say. No one is seating with the Distance Learning student to take the Boards. I am pretty sure the same NCLEX book(s) is used by students from both learning institutions. I wish you much success with your choice of your nursing school. Maybe later your views will change, because I have a feeling Distance Learning will be more accepting with the 800,000 more nurses needed by 2010.

In all fairness to Lizz (and this is killing me) you will always hear many nurses from public community college LVN and ADN to prestigious private university BSN programs tell you that they felt unprepared for their new role upon graduation.

I went through a "traditional" LVN program and felt unprepared and very scared as a new LVN. My first job was a step-down unit and I received an 8 week orientation and needed every bit of it.

My first RN job was in ICU and the standard here is 12 weeks for new grads, they pulled me out of orientation in 8 weeks only because of my prior experience I needed to learn more of the specific ICU things like A-lines, swans, etc. Even then I practically begged for the entire 12 weeks because I felt unprepared to be an ICU nurse with my own patients without someone watching over me.

As an LVN x8 years, can you think back to your very first LVN job out of school? Did you truely feel prepared and ready to go? If so, good for you but I doubt it.

The bottom line is this: Whatever program you go through, there is not enough time to give you the depth of training needed for the given specialties. They are busy putting you through your Med/Surg, OB, peds, etc. clinicals and giving you the basics. It would take forever to make every new nurse trained to do dialysis, ER, OR, ICU, etc. and THAT is what new grad orientation is for. It is not because the programs are substandard.

Believe me, NO ONE is coming out of RN school trained and ready to work in the areas I've listed above without a long and proper orientation.

Re- board pass rates, EC's currently published rate is 90% for first time test takers which is in line with most schools around the country.

Schools with poor pass rates get inspected by NLN and often the state and can and have been shut down here in TX. Even if they were allowed to operate, the schools will lose accreditation if they don't maintain an acceptable pass rate.

[RN34TX]

Most new grad programs are six weeks, tops, often a lot less than that. If, by chance, you don't know anything at that point, I don't know how you're going to make it through a new grad program, which is really just an orientation program.

Is this the info you've been getting at job fairs in CA? I'm curious because to me that seems like a very short orientation for a new grad unless you were doing LTC or something like it.

What types of units were they referring to? Would the orientation be longer if you were to accept a position in ICU, OR, ER, etc.?

Would this orientation be for new grads with no prior nursing experience at all?

Our new grads get 12 weeks and includes some classroom time but some of them that we have now are getting 16 weeks because they are just not ready to be on their own.

I'm also asking you these questions because I hope that you are asking the recruiters these questions as well. New grads can get burned very easily because some of them just don't know what to ask or expect from their new employer and take whatever is thrown at them.

You want solid, proper preceptorship as a new RN, take nothing less.

[Sheri257]

Hmmmm...rote memorization or critical thinking? Which skill would I rather develop? My vote is for critical thinking.

All of the questions in our nursing tests involve critical thinking. There's no rote memorization.

However, if you don't know the material, there's no way you can accurately answer a critical thinking question, at least with the way our tests are structured.

You have to both know the material and critically think. Without books or notes, of course.

[Sheri257]

I'm also asking you these questions because I hope that you are asking the recruiters these questions as well. New grads can get burned very easily because some of them just don't know what to ask or expect from their new employer and take whatever is thrown at them.

You want solid, proper preceptorship as a new RN, take nothing less.

Agreed, which is why I asked. But that's what most of the recruiters told me. Six weeks or less. So far, the only program I know of that has 12 weeks is Kaiser. But I'm still researching ...

[Sheri257]

In all fairness to Lizz (and this is killing me) ...

BTW ... I really enjoyed that ...

Especially if it's possible for us to agree on something ...

[mona b RN, BSN, RN]

All of the questions in our nursing tests involve critical thinking. There's no rote memorization.

However, if you don't know the material, there's no way you can accurately answer a critical thinking question, at least with the way our tests are structured.

You have to both know the material and critically think. Without books or notes, of course.

Exactly my point. If you don't know the material, it doesn't really matter if you have a book to use as a resource. My experience has been that most open book quizzes rely on "critical thinking" type questions.

I also think that it is offensive to imply people are cheating if the instructors give explicit exam directions to use resources. It's a very broad statement Lizz, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. :)

[Sheri257]

Exactly my point. If you don't know the material, it doesn't really matter if you have a book to use as a resource. My experience has been that most open book quizzes rely on "critical thinking" type questions.

I also think that it is offensive to imply people are cheating if the instructors give explicit exam directions to use resources. It's a very broad statement Lizz, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. :)

If you don't know the material the extra notes and books don't matter? Well, it sure would give me an advantage going into an exam. That's why it's called cheating ... at least at most schools.

And I don't care if it's "offensive". And I'm not "implying" anything. I'm stating as fact that it's cheating. Or, at the very least, making the "exams" a joke.

Institutionalized cheating is still cheating. You guys are only fooling yourselves if you really believe otherwise.

I'd really like to know how many nursing schools allow open book exams. Very few I'd bet. I just can't believe that any nursing program would allow this. It's shocking.

[Jo Dirt]

As an LVN x8 years, can you think back to your very first LVN job out of school? Did you truely feel prepared and ready to go? If so, good for you but I doubt it.

Believe me, NO ONE is coming out of RN school trained and ready to work in the areas I've listed above without a long and proper orientation.

Re- board pass rates, EC's currently published rate is 90% for first time test takers which is in line with most schools around the country.

As an LPN of four years, I remember very well my first job out of LPN school, and I felt totally inept. Ashamed at what I didn't know (because I was sure I should have learned it in nursing school.)

Well, I discovered that there is NO WAY you can learn everything you need to learn in nursing school, and I now see nursing school as not training you do jump out there in the job world and know all there is to know. I see passing nursing school as only an indication that you are competent to be TRAINED to work as a nurse through the place that chooses to hire you.

I have nothing but respect for Excelsior. You must know your stuff to pass their tests. I bombed NC 5 with a D last week (or was it week before last???) but I didn't feel bad about it. I know exactly what to study now.

[Jo Dirt]

I'd really like to know how many nursing schools allow open book exams. Very few I'd bet. I just can't believe that any nursing program would allow this. It's shocking.

What nursing program is allowing this and where?

It sure sounds like cheating to me. The nursing profession has been cheapened enough as it is, now they are giving open book exams?

[mona b RN, BSN, RN]

If you don't know the material the extra notes and books don't matter? Well, it sure would give me an advantage going into an exam. That's why it's called cheating ... at least at most schools.

And I don't care if it's "offensive". And I'm not "implying" anything. I stating as fact that it's cheating. Or, at the very least, making the "exams" a joke.

Institutionalized cheating is still cheating. You guys are only fooling yourselves if you really believe otherwise.

I'd really like to know how many nursing schools allow open book exams. Very few I'd bet. I just can't believe that any nursing program would allow this. It's shocking.

Again Lizz, this is your opinion. However, shocking as it may be, open book exams are not all that uncommon.

Have you ever taken an open book exam or quiz? Do you know what it is like to take a timed test? It's not easy, but then again it's not supposed to be.