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| Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 31 | 
Nov 16, 2007, 12:24 PM
 Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy Originally Posted by Kyrshamarks  It also gets tiresome seeing you make every post a referendum agianst conservatives and some are also blatantly even anti US and anti corporation. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion and has the right to express it.
1. Dissent is hardly the politics of attack. I post articles and posts that explain my thinking. Posting a concern about the course our country is taking is not "blatantly anti-us."
2. I am not anti-US by any means. I am deeply patriotic. What I post is a challenge to our country to be and do better both on the domestic and international front.
3. Pointing out the risks of unregulated capitalism is hardly anti-capitalism. The rule of law needs to apply to corporations just as it does to us as individual citizens. If corporations are behaving badly they need to be held accountable.
Our country was founded on free speech. It was also founded out of a war of ideas. The war of ideas is not founded in personal attacks but through honest debate on the implications of policy and policy choices. I may or may not be a supporter of Ms. Clinton but the real challenges facing our country are economic. One of the great challenges is health care and health security for people living in the US.
 | | No. 33 |
Nov 16, 2007, 01:09 PM
Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy Originally Posted by CRNA2007 Here in lies the problem. Everyone will not be paying into it. Thsoe who will use the system the most will pay into it the least. You try to do single payer and we will get endless media stories aon how so and so doesn't have the money to afford the premiums and they should get it for free. We already have so many freebies and giveaways for the poor it is ridiculous.
This already is happening.....in a large way thru the EMTALA laws. ER's can't turn anyone away d/t lack of ability to pay. Hospitals provide millions of dollars of 'uncompensated' care each year - so in order to keep their doors open - they have to raise the costs for those of us who 'can' pay and to the insurance companies.....which translates into higher premiums.....which translates into people not being able to afford insurance.....and the viscious cycle continues.
Many of the uninsured ARE working and many could afford to pay something....just not what the current costs are.
Again, so many people are just falling thru the cracks.
| | No. 34 |
Nov 16, 2007, 01:37 PM
Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy Originally Posted by Emmanuel Goldstein As in...?
Well, I can think of a few - welfare (whatever they call it - aid to dependent children?), low rent assistence, energy assistence, food stamps, WIC, medicaid.
In the town in Iowa where I worked, and across the river where I live in Illinois, they have 'community health centers'. I don't know if they have them everywhere, but I am familiar with these two - their fees are totally dependent upon your income.
I go to the dentist at the center here in Illinois, and I pay full price, but if both my husband and I were retired, we'd get a reduced rate.
In the center in Iowa they work with drug companies to get free or reduced prescriptions for patients - I don't know about the one here in Illinois.
I also know that the Community health in Iowa works with surgeons at the hospital to get free or greatly reduced surgical care for their patients.
I know for a fact that there are several food pantries, because I have donated to them.
| | No. 35 |
Nov 16, 2007, 04:09 PM
Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy
Socialized medicine = everybody in healthcare works for the gov't. Docs, nurses, techs, xray techs, ets. on down the line. The VA, for example.
Single-payer = people work wherever they want to and collect their paycheck from their employer, but the gov't pays the cost of healthcare.
That may be an overly simplistic definition, but the basic difference is a big one.
| | No. 36 |
Nov 16, 2007, 04:31 PM
Updated
Nov 16, 2007 at 04:36 PM by Jolie
Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy Originally Posted by Arwen_U Socialized medicine = everybody in healthcare works for the gov't. Docs, nurses, techs, xray techs, ets. on down the line. The VA, for example.
Single-payer = people work wherever they want to and collect their paycheck from their employer, but the gov't pays the cost of healthcare.
That may be an overly simplistic definition, but the basic difference is a big one.
I respectfully disagree, and believe that your distinction between socialized medicine and single payor healthcare is simply a matter of semantics.
In reality, the payor of healthcare is ultimately the boss and decision maker. That is the reason many people object to third party payor (private insurers) now.
By shifting to taxpayer funded, but government run healthcare, the decision making will shift from a private insurance company to a government bureaucracy. I don't see that as beneficial in any way to the quality or cost of my family's healthcare.
The only way for consumers to gain control of the quality and cost of their healthcare is to become their own payors. Only when we have personal responsibility for healthcare decisions and spending will costs drop to a reasonable level, making healthcare accessible to all.
| | No. 38 |
Nov 16, 2007, 07:48 PM
Updated
Nov 16, 2007 at 07:53 PM by ZASHAGALKA
Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy Originally Posted by Arwen_U Socialized medicine = everybody in healthcare works for the gov't. Docs, nurses, techs, xray techs, ets. on down the line. The VA, for example.
Single-payer = people work wherever they want to and collect their paycheck from their employer, but the gov't pays the cost of healthcare.
That may be an overly simplistic definition, but the basic difference is a big one.
You work for the person that pays your salary. If that is Uncle Daddy, then you work for Uncle Daddy. It doesn't matter that he contracts that service out to Haliburton, er, I mean, your local hospital.
You work for the man that pays you. Under single payor, that is the gov't.
In that way, single payor IS socialism. It's a name you want to run from, for a reason. It doesn't work. And the people know it.
Socialized medicine has been tried before - and failed to gain popular support. People DO want a change. They do NOT want to turn their healthcare into a trip to the DMV. Ultimately, people have experience with dealing with the gov't and don't want to turn their care into such a system. You can't hide that experience that everybody has with dealing with a red-tape gov't. We all know that gov't doesn't mean quality. It means DMV wait times and 900 dollar hammers. You can sell change. You can't sell socialism.
I'm not concerned.
~faith,
Timothy.
| | No. 39 |
Nov 16, 2007, 08:00 PM
Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy
How many medical professionals have you met that have moved to Canada to practice their specialty? I can't think of any nurses that have left the USA to practice up north because of a better quality of life, better income or lower nurse to patient ratios.
I can think of 10 off of the top of my head that have migrated to the states from Canada to work in a system that is based upon capitalism and not upon the government providing a free handout.
If it is so good up there and so successful.....why not relocate?
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