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Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer system



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No. 20
from dbihl
Old Nov 16, 2007, 01:08 AM

Default Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy
Originally Posted by CRNA2007 View Post
All I hear from Democrats is a referendum on George Bush, who is not even running for re-election.

that is because George Bush is a sociopath unable to feel empathy for any other living creature.
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No. 21
from hope3456
Old Nov 16, 2007, 04:06 AM

Default Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy
Originally Posted by CRNA2007 View Post
I don't know what any of my patients have for insurance. How do you feel about providing services for people who work hard and have earned what they have?
The reason I ask is b/c, in my experience as a RN, I see care rationed more on privately insured pts than on uninsured and medicaid pts. It seems that when Drs' write orders for these 'insured' pts, they know that 'God is watching.' I also have seen faxes come thru for Drs from the insurance companies denying their requests to cover certain meds for pts for 'this or that' petty reasons......it just doesn't make sense. That has been my experience lately and why I am very much on the bandwagon that the U.S. needs a new system.

Recently I took care of a pt who did 'work hard and earned what he had.' He was a self employed contractor but didn't have health insurance when he had a massive MI requiring open heart surgery with complications, requiring a 2wk hospital stay. He owned a significant amount of properties - which no doubt he worked very hard for. The hospital went and put liens on them for payment, causing him a great deal of stress - probably prolonging his stay and ability to heal.




I definately agree with the pp about we need to 'think outside the box' and come up with a system that works - instead of just comparing ourselves with Canada and assuming we will be the same way.
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No. 22
Old Nov 16, 2007, 07:35 AM

Default Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy
Originally Posted by HM2Viking View Post
Making every post a referendum about Hilary Clinton is a bit tiresome. A reasonable person would have read the article before posting a response.

The article was discussing how a bipartisan concensus is emerging to bring forth a universal plan. I have friends who are financial analysts for large corporations. They are saying the same thing about how corporate america wants to see this happen.

It also gets tiresome seeing you make every post a referendum agianst conservatives and some are also blatantly even anti US and anti corporation. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion and has the right to express it.
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No. 23
from CRNA2007
Old Nov 16, 2007, 07:43 AM

Default Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy
not even for halliburton or big oil, or big pharmaceutical???? And you have intimate knowledge of this because....



Originally Posted by dbihl View Post
that is because George Bush is a sociopath unable to feel empathy for any other living creature.
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No. 24
from CRNA2007
Old Nov 16, 2007, 07:44 AM

Default Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy
We obviously have the greatest healthcare and opportunities in the world!!! 20 million illegal immigrants can't all be wrong
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No. 25
Old Nov 16, 2007, 08:00 AM
Updated Nov 16, 2007 at 08:03 AM by bayoubengals

Default Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy
One of the major complaints about the Canadian health care system is waiting times, whether for a specialist, major elective surgery, such as hip replacement, or specialized treatments, such as radiation for breast cancer. Studies by the Commonwealth Fund found that 24% of Canadians waited 4 hours or more in the emergency room, vs. 12% in the U.S.; 57% waited 4 weeks or more to see a specialist, vs. 23% in the U.S.[39]
In a 2003 survey of hospital administrators conducted in Canada, the U.S., and three other countries, 21% of Canadian hospital administrators, but less than 1% of American administrators, said that it would take over three weeks to do a biopsy for possible breast cancer on a 50-year-old woman; 50% of Canadian administrators versus none of their American counterparts said that it would take over six months for a 65-year-old to undergo a routine hip replacement surgery. Yet U.S. administrators were the most negative about their country's health care system. Hospital executives in all five countries expressed concerns about staffing shortages and emergency department waiting times and quality.[40][41]
In the Canadian Supreme Court case of Chaoulli v. Quebec, Chaoulli argued that the long waits were life-threatening and violated human rights, and that doctors and patients had a right to contract for private health care, despite the prohibitions on those medical services.
Canadians concede that waiting time is a problem that stems from the country's lower costs and commitment to universal coverage. In a letter to the Wall Street Journal, Robert S. Bell, M.D., President and CEO of University Health Network, Toronto, said that Michael Moore's film Sicko "exaggerated the performance of the Canadian health system — there is no doubt that too many patients still stay in our emergency departments waiting for admission to scarce hospital beds." However, ****"Canadians spend about 55% of what Americans spend on health care and have longer life expectancy, and lower infant mortality rates.**** Many Americans have access to quality health care. All Canadians have access to similar care at a considerably lower cost." Canadians pay 9% of GDP to insure 100% of citizens, compared with 14% of GDP to insure 85% of Americans. The Kaiser Family Foundation found that 63% of Americans were worried about not being able to afford health-care services. !!!!There is "no question" that the lower cost has come at the cost of "restriction of supply with sub-optimal access to services,"!!! said Bell. A new approach is targeting waiting times, which are reported on public web sites[42][43][44]
In the U.S., patients on Medicaid, the low-income government programs, can wait three months or more to see specialists. Because Medicaid payments are so low, doctors don't want to see Medicaid patients. In Benton Harbor, Michigan, specialists agreed to spend one afternoon every week or two at a Medicaid clinic, which meant that Medicaid patients had to make appointments not at the doctor's office, but at the clinic, where appointments had to be booked months in advance.[45]

My emphasis on these statements, !!!!, ***.
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No. 26
Old Nov 16, 2007, 08:36 AM

Default Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy
Originally Posted by CRNA2007 View Post
I don't know what any of my patients have for insurance. How do you feel about providing services for people who work hard and have earned what they have?
Aren't we in a sense already doing this with having to pay higher premiums? If we had a health system where everyone can pay into it, maybe the cost would spread out a little more. The uninsured aren't uninsured because they want to be, but because they can't afford some of the high premiums that they have to pay if they have to get insurance on their own. I mean, if you work in a great company with great benefits...good for you, but there is a large amount of people working but because they may be working for small companies, or maybe less than full-time, have to provide their own health insurance. For a young family that can be really crippling. Having a national insurance that would allow families to purchase insurance at a lower premium would definitely benefit many.

Originally Posted by bayoubengals View Post
If this happens it will be the end of the excellent healthcare we have as we know it.
Nationlized healthcare is worthless, long waits for treatment, denial of services, look at britian and canada. Heard on the radio that 70,000 britons left the country last year for procedures they could not get in Britian. When I was in Great Falls, Montana, late 80's/early 90's, every weekend we were invaded by canadiens seeking healthcare and prescription medicines they could not get in thier own country with its nationalized medicine.

hope3456, let me put in my 2 cents on medicaid and uninsured. First off I have no problem taking care of them. I am presently an ER nurse and it is the attitude of those on medicaid that is a major part of the problem. You see to them its all free and they use it as such...little jhonny has a fever for 2 hrs and they are in the er, litttle jhonny scraped his knee and they are in the er, little suzy stepped on dads hand and it hurts in the er never mind that little suzy weighs a mere 40pounds and simplly stepped on the hand. You see they have know accountability, the average person visits the er less than once in 3 years, I have had medicaid pt's in the er 50+ times in 6months.
They abuse thier privelege(sp). Then make them wait while you are running a code or a code trauma and be accused of neglicting them.
Try working in the er and see for yourself.
Let's get this straight, National Healthcare is NOT the same thing as socialized medicine. A single payor system should require everyone to have a primary physician. Unless it is an emergency, all patients should be required to go to their primary over the ER. I know that if I go to the ER when I go just as easily make an appointment with my primary, I'll be financially responsible.

I won't disagree with you regarding Medicaid.

Originally Posted by hope3456 View Post
I agree with this article. I think it will happen b/c U.S. citizens are going to demand it thru their voting power. I know that I for one will be. The current system is letting too many people fall thru the cracks for too many reasons, and like the article said, many of the 'uninsured/underinsured' are voters. We aren't just talking about poor h.s. dropouts anymore - the 'uninsured' problem is reaching farther up into the middle/upper class.


Kris
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No. 27
from dbihl
Old Nov 16, 2007, 08:55 AM

Default Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy
Originally Posted by CRNA2007 View Post
not even for halliburton or big oil, or big pharmaceutical???? And you have intimate knowledge of this because....
His style of communication reflects an individual who is saying he cares for others, but his body language and tone exhibits that he has an inability to exhibit empathy, or the inability to try to feel what other people are feeling.
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No. 28
from CRNA2007
Old Nov 16, 2007, 12:07 PM

Default Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy
Mr. Bush lives in the real world. He doesn't govern by polls and he doesn't govern by emotion he is a realist. I can guarantee troops hold him in much higher regard than the previous occupant of the white house.



Originally Posted by dbihl View Post
His style of communication reflects an individual who is saying he cares for others, but his body language and tone exhibits that he has an inability to exhibit empathy, or the inability to try to feel what other people are feeling.
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No. 29
from CRNA2007
Old Nov 16, 2007, 12:09 PM

Default Re: Within the next few years the U.S. is going to have a nationwide, single-payer sy
Here in lies the problem. Everyone will not be paying into it. Thsoe who will use the system the most will pay into it the least. You try to do single payer and we will get endless media stories aon how so and so doesn't have the money to afford the premiums and they should get it for free. We already have so many freebies and giveaways for the poor it is ridiculous.



Originally Posted by SarasotaRN2b View Post
Aren't we in a sense already doing this with having to pay higher premiums? If we had a health system where everyone can pay into it, maybe the cost would spread out a little more. The uninsured aren't uninsured because they want to be, but because they can't afford some of the high premiums that they have to pay if they have to get insurance on their own. Kris
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