Whither the Nursing Shortage?

  1. 3 Whither the Nursing Shortage?

    http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2011/12/...ogle_news_blog


    "...Also, there's evidence that in some markets at least, the tough economy and surge of RNs into the workplace have made it tougher for new graduates to find work. That could also lower the appeal of the career, though Auerbach says that kind of pressure should ease off as the unemployment rate drops...."
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  3. Visit  netglow profile page

    About netglow

    From 'YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE'; Joined Jan '09; Posts: 5,387; Likes: 10,354.

    27 Comments so far...

  4. Visit  Esme12 profile page
    6
    Doh
  5. Visit  chuckster profile page
    8
    Quote from netglow
    whither the nursing shortage?

    http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2011/12/...ogle_news_blog


    "...also, there's evidence that in some markets at least, the tough economy and surge of rns into the workplace have made it tougher for new graduates to find work. that could also lower the appeal of the career, though auerbach says that kind of pressure should ease off as the unemployment rate drops...."
    one thing there's clearly no shortage of is institutions willing to exploit the situation. case in point: new york city.

    should the nurses in nyc have the temerity to stage a walkout during the christmas season to help maintain decent benefits and preserve a living wage, the hospitals will simply dismiss them and hire from the large pool of new grads and un/underemployed rn's. that is not a veiled threat either, as this statement from a hospital spokesman indicates:
    . . . in part, that view [that a walkout will force management to accede to the nursing union demands] stems from years of nurse shortages, when management freely conceded to union demands. "that is no longer the situation," observed mr. .... citing waiting lists for nurses looking for jobs at most new york hospitals.
    nursel56, VICEDRN, Esme12, and 5 others like this.
  6. Visit  lindarn profile page
    15
    I fully believe that the intentional over-saturation of the nursing market was orchestrated by hospitals and nursing homes to diminish the growing power and unionizing of the nursing profession!!

    Just look at what has happened in the past decade. As more and more nurses have unionized, demanded better pay and benefits, and is some cases, fewer patients per nurse (pseudo-nursing ratios), nursing numbers have dramatically increased. Nursing programs and enrollment have shyrocketed!

    With the increased number of available nurses, the power of nurses has decreased. As hospitals have had a more difficult time bringing in foreign nurses, aka as indentured servants, their only alternative is to incease the number of nurses in the pipeline.

    Think about it. Think outside the box. As nurses have continued to shun union membership, hospitals have worked on disempowering the nursing profession. I have no doubt that there is collusion between hospitals and the nursing "leadership'. in the ANA and the State Boards of Nursing. They are turning us in on one hand, and then patting us on the back and telling us how our nursing skills will be SO valuable in the future after the baby boomers retire, and the nursing ranks stand empty of nurses!! Stabbing us in the back is what they are doing!

    I will again say, that if nursing had finally come to its senses in the 1990's, with the advent of, "care redesign", and the massive amounts of nurses laid off, our professional practice deskilled, never to be regained, we would not be dealing with this now. We missed a golden opportunity to finally regain control of our profession, and lead nursing where WE want to see it.

    Also, if we would increase the entry into practice to a BSN, new nurses would take longer to graduate, fewer individuals would enter the profession (because it would not be seen as an EASY two year degree to a good paying profession). The higher entrance requirements would stem the flow of new nurses. It worked for PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, and it would work for nurses.

    We would also have the ability to improve the programs that are producing nurses. This is VERY important because it seems that the curriculum and pre-requisites, have been dumbed down dramaticlly.

    As usual, this is JMHO and my $0.02.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Somewhere in the PACNW
    mystory, Freshnewnurse11, nursel56, and 12 others like this.
  7. Visit  chuckster profile page
    5
    Quote from lindarn
    I fully believe that the intentional over-saturation of the nursing market was orchestrated by hospitals and nursing homes to diminish the growing power and unionizing of the nursing profession!! . . .
    I'm there with ya Lindarn. Now all we have to do is convince the rest of the US that the whole nursing shortage thing was a scam orchestrated by those same hospitals and nursing homes to keep corporate health care profits as high as possible. As the late Phil Scooter Rizzuto might have said, that should be "a can of corn!"
    nursel56, Esme12, lindarn, and 2 others like this.
  8. Visit  HazelLPN profile page
    5
    Quote from lindarn
    I fully believe that the intentional over-saturation of the nursing market was orchestrated by hospitals and nursing homes to diminish the growing power and unionizing of the nursing profession!!

    Just look at what has happened in the past decade. As more and more nurses have unionized, demanded better pay and benefits, and is some cases, fewer patients per nurse (pseudo-nursing ratios), nursing numbers have dramatically increased. Nursing programs and enrollment have shyrocketed!

    With the increased number of available nurses, the power of nurses has decreased. As hospitals have had a more difficult time bringing in foreign nurses, aka as indentured servants, their only alternative is to incease the number of nurses in the pipeline.

    Think about it. Think outside the box. As nurses have continued to shun union membership, hospitals have worked on disempowering the nursing profession. I have no doubt that there is collusion between hospitals and the nursing "leadership'. in the ANA and the State Boards of Nursing. They are turning us in on one hand, and then patting us on the back and telling us how our nursing skills will be SO valuable in the future after the baby boomers retire, and the nursing ranks stand empty of nurses!! Stabbing us in the back is what they are doing!

    I will again say, that if nursing had finally come to its senses in the 1990's, with the advent of, "care redesign", and the massive amounts of nurses laid off, our professional practice deskilled, never to be regained, we would not be dealing with this now. We missed a golden opportunity to finally regain control of our profession, and lead nursing where WE want to see it.

    Also, if we would increase the entry into practice to a BSN, new nurses would take longer to graduate, fewer individuals would enter the profession (because it would not be seen as an EASY two year degree to a good paying profession). The higher entrance requirements would stem the flow of new nurses. It worked for PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, and it would work for nurses.

    We would also have the ability to improve the programs that are producing nurses. This is VERY important because it seems that the curriculum and pre-requisites, have been dumbed down dramaticlly.

    As usual, this is JMHO and my $0.02.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Somewhere in the PACNW
    You said it very well again Lindarn. I too am very concerned with the quality of many of the nursing programs these days, especially the for profit schools that all seem to offer nursing degrees that are popping up everywhere. In my day, we all trained in the hospital. My LPN program was a full two year long (six weeks off in the summers) Catholic hospital based diploma school...with NUNS mind you. At 77 years old and 54 years in nursing, not much scares me these days, but I'm still afraid of nuns. We lived in a dorm at the hospital. We had class in the morning, clinical in the afternoon and had to work as student nurses in the evenings and even on the weekends where we were constantly asked to explain our thinking by the veteran nurses....critical reasoning long before the term was tossed around. We ate, breathed and slept nursing. I still wear my cap to this day to my volunteer job because I never forgot how hard I had to work to earn that cap.

    These schools are no longer practical because we were, in a way, slave labor for the hospitals and we gave up our lives for 2-3 years (RNs trained for three years). There must be a way to incorporate the clinical excellence of the old diploma schools with the academic rigor and well rounded education that the BSN programs later brought into nursing in the 1970s.

    Also in my day (and perhaps yours to a lesser extent) is the role of women in the workplace. In my day, women didn't have the career options that men did. I graduated from nursing school in 1955 and women doctors were very very rare. I was the only girl in my high school physics and calculus classes because women were not encouraged to take thoes courses. I remember my chemistry and physics teacher telling me "you will make a great nurse someday". These days, very bright young women are not encouraged to go into nursing like they used to be because there are so many more options for them. Definately good for women, but the quality of new nursing graduates had steadily declined since the 1970s as bright young women have so many more opportunities that we didn't have when I was young.

    Now LPNs train only for one year, ADN for two years and the old diploma schools are rapidly becoming a thing of the past.
    We must do more to attract quality young women and young men into nursing. How to do it? Higher pay, better working conditions, and higher standards for admission into nursing programs.

    I am now retired from critical care nursing (the old gray mare just ain't want she used to be) and I work as a substitute assistant school nurse in the classrooms with special needs students and teachers. Teaching was a desired job for women in my day and it is still a desired job to this day. Why? Unions. Unions try to attract quality people to the profession and retain them. The NEA and AFT are very powerful and successfully fought attempts to detroy them in Ohio and they seem to be looking strong in Wisconsin.

    The ANA has failed nurses. Maybe we need a new union to unite all nurses....and we can elect good old Lindarn as the first president.

    Best to you,
    Mrs H.
    zcoq72mehs, nursel56, momology, and 2 others like this.
  9. Visit  lindarn profile page
    4
    Quote from HazelLPN
    You said it very well again Lindarn. I too am very concerned with the quality of many of the nursing programs these days, especially the for profit schools that all seem to offer nursing degrees that are popping up everywhere. In my day, we all trained in the hospital. My LPN program was a full two year long (six weeks off in the summers) Catholic hospital based diploma school...with NUNS mind you. At 77 years old and 54 years in nursing, not much scares me these days, but I'm still afraid of nuns. We lived in a dorm at the hospital. We had class in the morning, clinical in the afternoon and had to work as student nurses in the evenings and even on the weekends where we were constantly asked to explain our thinking by the veteran nurses....critical reasoning long before the term was tossed around. We ate, breathed and slept nursing. I still wear my cap to this day to my volunteer job because I never forgot how hard I had to work to earn that cap.

    These schools are no longer practical because we were, in a way, slave labor for the hospitals and we gave up our lives for 2-3 years (RNs trained for three years). There must be a way to incorporate the clinical excellence of the old diploma schools with the academic rigor and well rounded education that the BSN programs later brought into nursing in the 1970s.

    Also in my day (and perhaps yours to a lesser extent) is the role of women in the workplace. In my day, women didn't have the career options that men did. I graduated from nursing school in 1955 and women doctors were very very rare. I was the only girl in my high school physics and calculus classes because women were not encouraged to take thoes courses. I remember my chemistry and physics teacher telling me "you will make a great nurse someday". These days, very bright young women are not encouraged to go into nursing like they used to be because there are so many more options for them. Definately good for women, but the quality of new nursing graduates had steadily declined since the 1970s as bright young women have so many more opportunities that we didn't have when I was young.

    Now LPNs train only for one year, ADN for two years and the old diploma schools are rapidly becoming a thing of the past.
    We must do more to attract quality young women and young men into nursing. How to do it? Higher pay, better working conditions, and higher standards for admission into nursing programs.

    I am now retired from critical care nursing (the old gray mare just ain't want she used to be) and I work as a substitute assistant school nurse in the classrooms with special needs students and teachers. Teaching was a desired job for women in my day and it is still a desired job to this day. Why? Unions. Unions try to attract quality people to the profession and retain them. The NEA and AFT are very powerful and successfully fought attempts to detroy them in Ohio and they seem to be looking strong in Wisconsin.

    The ANA has failed nurses. Maybe we need a new union to unite all nurses....and we can elect good old Lindarn as the first president.

    Best to you,
    Mrs H.
    THANK YOU for your accolades! I was also a Diploma Grad from NYC. I graduated in 1975 when the US was still fighting the Vietnam War! I was in pre conferance clinical, when our teacher announced that Richard Nixon resigned as President of the US!! I am dating myself.

    In those days, we were given a patient assignment for the next clinical day, and we had to research the diagnosis/diagnoses, medications, treatments, labs, all related to the patient's diagnosis! We then had to present our patient in pre conference. Heavan help you if you did not do a thorough job of learing about your patient! Those were the days! That is why we learned so much physiology and pathophysiology! And why we were able to develop and use critical thinking skills when we entered into practice.

    Nursing has a union that is worth joining and supporting- the NNOC!! If we all joined, and got one person to join, we would take over this country and the Nursing profession! I challenge everyone to do just that. Join NNOC and get another nurse to join as well.

    I also challege each nurse to look into themselves, and find ways to be strong and change the wishy washy nursing philosophy, you know, the one that says, "it doesn't effect me so I don't care". Or, "I don't care if crossing the picket line is ultimately going to hurt the entire profession, I only care about how much money I am going to make. The hell with everyone else. Every man (nurse), for themselves!".

    That mentality has hurt the profession terribly. Unity is not stressed in nursing school, like it is in other professions. While in medical school, and residencies, doctors discuss forming practices after they finish residencies, from practice groups, lawyers, while they are in law school, join study groups to understand the law. These early groups, etc, form the basis for the unity these professsions have after they get into the workforce. Nursing misses the boat by a mile. They are subjects that are never stressed in nursing school. Hospitals also go to great lengths to continue the status quo of divide and conquer.

    We are suffering terribly because of it. We have no unity, no cohesion, it is every man for himself.

    Again, I challenge every nurse to change the disunity that we have, join the NNOC, be active in it, and be the one to change nursing for the better.

    JMHO and my NY $0.02.
    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Somewhere in the PACNW
    Irinauer, whereslilly, Esme12, and 1 other like this.
  10. Visit  needshaldol profile page
    3
    Very interesting thought. Agree; no nursing shortage. Our hospital is contracted with two nursing schools and we hired at least 15 nurses recently. Every one was hired FULL TIME. This is a move to keep costs down. It keeps the hospital from hiring part time and paying health insurance. So now these full time nurses work about 3 days/week.
    I see that the big problem is that most of nursing is still women. Women are still thought of in nursing not highly by management. We have one RN who worked about 1-2 yrs at most and is now the computer person FULL time and everyone respects this person who is a RN but doing non-RN work at high pay. It makes no sense.
    HazelLPN, nursel56, and lindarn like this.
  11. Visit  momology profile page
    3
    Since there is a glut of unemployed nurses why do we still have H1b visas? Are there reciprocal agreements for our nurses to go to these other countries and work? Other than as volunteers.
    Why does our government spend money on universities and Pell grants then undermine our graduates ability to find employment?
    mystory, HazelLPN, and lindarn like this.
  12. Visit  Esme12 profile page
    1
    Quote from momology
    Since there is a glut of unemployed nurses why do we still have H1b visas? Are there reciprocal agreements for our nurses to go to these other countries and work? Other than as volunteers.
    Why does our government spend money on universities and Pell grants then undermine our graduates ability to find employment?
    Money.....the colloges want their money....they don't care if you can't find a job. I'll scratch your back you scratch mine....http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112:h.r.1929:#
    lindarn likes this.
  13. Visit  ♪♫ in my ♥ profile page
    3
    Quote from chuckster
    I'm there with ya Lindarn. Now all we have to do is convince the rest of the US that the whole nursing shortage thing was a scam orchestrated by those same hospitals and nursing homes to keep corporate health care profits as high as possible.
    Chuck, by "rest of the US," are you referring to the American public who seem to be generally supporting the efforts of one political party to further empower large corporations, further enrich the wealthy, oppose anything that would lead to reducing costs of delivering care, and actively trying to destroy the unions?

    Yep, can of corn, indeed.
    HazelLPN, nursel56, and PMFB-RN like this.
  14. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    5
    i fully believe that the intentional over-saturation of the nursing market was orchestrated by hospitals and nursing homes to diminish the growing power and unionizing of the nursing profession!!

    *** add in the for profit, super expensive rn mills and the public college/university administration who have enjoyed seeing the size & importance of their son grow and i will agree with you.

    think about it. think outside the box. as nurses have continued to shun union membership, hospitals have worked on disempowering the nursing profession. i have no doubt that there is collusion between hospitals and the nursing "leadership'. in the ana and the state boards of nursing. they are turning us in on one hand, and then patting us on the back and telling us how our nursing skills will be so valuable in the future after the baby boomers retire, and the nursing ranks stand empty of nurses!! stabbing us in the back is what they are doing!

    *** yes!!!! you go girl.

    also, if we would increase the entry into practice to a bsn, new nurses would take longer to graduate, fewer individuals would enter the profession (because it would not be seen as an easy two year degree to a good paying profession). the higher entrance requirements would stem the flow of new nurses. it worked for pts, ots, pharmacists, and it would work for nurses.

    *** finaly! why hasen't this been the argument in favor of bsn and point of entry rather than the silly and inteligence insulting argument that bsn only will result is safer patient care or more respect for nurses?
    mystory, HazelLPN, nursel56, and 2 others like this.
  15. Visit  netglow profile page
    2
    don't forget there are others who have nursing as a second degree having gone to the best university (ill-ini) to get the first degree, and have vast experience in a successful first career to translate into the second, an adn (graduating with highest honors).

    we don't like to take crap much either.
    Last edit by netglow on Dec 7, '11
    woahmelly and nursel56 like this.


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