Whither the Nursing Shortage? - page 3

Whither the Nursing Shortage? "...Also, there’s evidence that in some markets at least, the tough economy and surge of RNs into the workplace have made it tougher for new graduates to find work. That could also lower the... Read More

  1. 3
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** Ya, you are probably right. The same false nursing shortage propaganda used to encourage a glut of new grads can be used to lobby for imported nurses. Either way the effect for them is the same, they get nurses willing to work for less and tolerate poorer working conditions.
    BTW in most of the developed world a BSN takes three years. Nurses I have worked with from the Philippines tell me that their country designs it's nursing programs to meet the requirement of the USA and most other countries.
    Posted about that last bit often enough.

    Basically it is tied somewhat to the immigration laws of the United States.

    When the US changed it's immigration policy away from quotas and made family reunification the primary goal it made it very difficult for Western Europeans to come to these shores legally. Prior to this many nurses from the UK, France, Ireland, etc came to the US.

    Since the Phillipines had been under US control during WWII and had a large population that spoke and or would learn English importation of nurses switched to that country, and it's been that way almost ever since. For generations now the Phillipines has been sending nurses, doctors, and other healthcare workers to the United States. As that country's primary destination (well hoped for at least) of nurses the Phillipines has bascially turned it's nursing education system into what suits the American healthcare market.

    By the way saw a television special on PBS last month and nurses aren't the only thing the Phillipines are exporting to the United States. The show covered a group of teachers from there contracted to work at inner-city US schools, so teachers you better watch out! *LOL*
    Fiona59, elkpark, and lindarn like this.

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  2. 1
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** Ya, you are probably right. The same false nursing shortage propaganda used to encourage a glut of new grads can be used to lobby for imported nurses. Either way the effect for them is the same, they get nurses willing to work for less and tolerate poorer working conditions.
    Not to be rude or give offence but you do know the USA is number one destination for immigration right? *LOL*

    The money Phillipine and other nurses make here is streets ahead of what most if not all earn elsewhere, especially if they can land a gig in one of the high wage states such as NY or CA. Many are used to living in vastly different conditions than most of us so grouping several nurses together in one apartment sharing everything isn't that big a deal.
    lindarn likes this.
  3. 1
    Quote from DoGoodThenGo
    Not to be rude or give offence but you do know the USA is number one destination for immigration right? *LOL*

    The money Phillipine and other nurses make here is streets ahead of what most if not all earn elsewhere, especially if they can land a gig in one of the high wage states such as NY or CA. Many are used to living in vastly different conditions than most of us so grouping several nurses together in one apartment sharing everything isn't that big a deal.
    *** Yep, I have visted the Phillipines several times. And I have worked with a number of RNs who came here from the Phillipines, still do. I am well aware of the the situation and the US/Phillipines history.
    lindarn likes this.
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    Given that the PI provides a Pacific zone of influence and military bases to check the growing Pacific influence of China, you'll never see anything besides a continued effort to foster ties and integration between the US and the PI.

    Just pointing out the geopolitical obvious...
    lindarn likes this.
  5. 2
    Quote from woah nelly
    It is. Is that a bad thing? The schools producing, excuse my french, s***y nurses are not the CCs in my area. It's the ones who charge 1k a class. I'm not happy, but I'll accept hospitals hiring ASIANs at a lower pay rate, because we are "less educated" by progression standards (not a lot of caring theory classes and society values those letters more highly for some reason even though we all take the same boards. However, I refuse to believe that limiting the access of educated individuals and retaining that access for only those able to afford it (have you seen the difference in tuition for an ASN vs BSN in public colleges?) is the solution.
    First, I'm a ASN grad. I did get a BSN and that was way later. The comment was that once you are a nurse your pay is pretty equal at the bedside, although a preference seems to be leaning towards the BSN in some areas. I am not so sure $.50 to $1.00 and hour is enough to make up for an additional $30.000 of debt.

    Personally, I think we can stop this regurgitation of "nurses" into the market place by raising the standards of graduation and participation in a program and return the NCLEX to a test that took you two days to take, tested you on all 5 area specialities, consisted of over a thousand questions and you could only retake once before you needed to return to school. As well as a larger amount of clinical hours that are required. Raise the standard across the board and raise the clinical competency as a requirement for graduation regardless of your degree.

    I also think we need to find a common entry level education and grandfather the rest.....all this BSN, ASN, ADN Diploma bickering after 33 years, is really getting on my nerves....
    lindarn and ♪♫ in my ♥ like this.
  6. 2
    Quote from Esme12
    Personally, I think we can stop this regurgitation of "nurses" into the market place by raising the standards of graduation and participation in a program and return the NCLEX to a test that took you two days to take, tested you on all 5 area specialities, consisted of over a thousand questions and you could only retake once before you needed to return to school.
    Agreed. The NCLEX is a shameful joke which becomes even worse if you compare it to the entrance exams required for most other licensed professionals, from doctors, lawyers, and engineers to plumbers and electricians.
    As well as a larger amount of clinical hours that are required. Raise the standard across the board and raise the clinical competency as a requirement for graduation regardless of your degree.
    Agreed... but with a caveat: Clinical experiences need to provide actual, hands-on nursing, not (much) glorified CNA work, observation, etc.

    All clinicals are not created equal.

    The present reality is that there are far too few quality clinical sites to effectively accommodate the masses being flushed through nursing schools each semester. (Looking at the numbers, I have a hard time believing that's not equally - or more - true in the PI).

    I also think we need to find a common entry level education and grandfather the rest.....all this BSN, ASN, ADN Diploma bickering after 33 years, is really getting on my nerves....
    Only 4 years in from beginning my program and all I can say, is, uh... yeah, that.
    Esme12 and lindarn like this.
  7. 1
    I was talking to my dentist recently. I was discussing the, "dumbing down", of nursing programs, and how too many nurses graduate without learning the most basic skills.

    She told me that when she was in dental school, and they were taking final exams at the end of the year, the students had to find "THEIR OWN 'PATIENTS' ", to work on and, and demonstrate their skills at things like, doing a routine filling, extracting teeth, placing crowns, etc. You get the picture. She said that she did a root canal on her next door neighbor.

    The dental work to the patients is free, since it was done by students. All the work is supervised, and there is a licensed dentist at every test site to help the students if things are not going right.

    I was amazed at what she told me, but you have to agree, at least the dental schools are graduating students who can hit the ground running.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Somewhere in the PACNW
    PMFB-RN likes this.
  8. 1
    Quote from lindarn
    I was talking to my dentist recently. I was discussing the, "dumbing down", of nursing programs, and how too many nurses graduate without learning the most basic skills.

    She told me that when she was in dental school, and they were taking final exams at the end of the year, the students had to find "THEIR OWN 'PATIENTS' ", to work on and, and demonstrate their skills at things like, doing a routine filling, extracting teeth, placing crowns, etc. You get the picture. She said that she did a root canal on her next door neighbor.

    The dental work to the patients is free, since it was done by students. All the work is supervised, and there is a licensed dentist at every test site to help the students if things are not going right.

    I was amazed at what she told me, but you have to agree, at least the dental schools are graduating students who can hit the ground running.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Somewhere in the PACNW
    NYU Dental School runs a huge free/reduced fee clinic system for their students. It is open to low income and others without the means to see a *regular* dentist and even has a special discount plan for students local NY colleges and universities. Everything is done from routine cleaning to advanced work including peridontal, implants, crowns, etc.

    The only fly in the ointment is that since students are performing the work (supervised of course) it can be quite slow to get things done.
    lindarn likes this.


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