Vaccination fears fuel increase in exemptions sought, AP finds - page 6

BOSTON - Sabrina Rahim doesn't practice any particular faith, but she had no problem signing a letter declaring that because of her deeply held religious beliefs, her 4-year-old son should be exempt... Read More

  1. by   lovthatlea
    the statement saying vaccines dont work is the most ridiculous thing i think i have read on these boards.

    wow has this board been up very long?:wink2:

    surely you dont believe that.

    yes i do...i've lived it. that always makes believers out of people! keep in mind i was not antivaccine. my kids are vaccinated to 2 yrs old ...they are 8 and 9 now and still alive.

    in the grand scheme of things, the benefits of preventing diptheria, pertussis and tetanus seems to outweigh the risk of a seizure.

    'seems' being the operative word. sometimes what seems to be a good thing really isn't. i held my 15 month old while he seized 8xs a day for 3 months not knowing if this seizure would be the one that would kill him. i won't risk that again. my kids are not expendable. if you are trying to avoid diseases don't inject them or pieces of them inside you giving them access to your organs. i found out no doctor on the planet understands the immune system. vaccines are at best a religion. you must have faith they work. there is no real science behind them.
  2. by   sharona97
    Quote from lovthatlea
    My son also had pertussis after 4 dpat shots. I took him to the doctor gasping for air and making that whoop sound as he breathed and I was told he had acute broncitis because he was vaccinated for pertussis...At first I believed him. Now I realize vaccines don't work. I read the package insert to the dpat. One in 1750 will seize from this vaccine. I hate seizures...my kids will never have another one.
    I'm curious, did your son have the nasopharngeal test to DX the pertussis? And did the doctor do any blood tests to confirm that your son had no immunity against pertussis? The reason I ask is because of the virility of the different strains out there are horrendous.

    My doc first told me that I had acute bronchitis, then asthmatic bronchitis, then s/p infectious bronchitis, then asthma, then maybe PE's, then maybe....... it went on and on without any testing. Finally the doc that dx'd me properly was also involved with public health medicine and knew that pertussis was out there.
    Thanks for any info?!
  3. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from Noryn
    The statement saying vaccines dont work is the most ridiculous thing I think I have read on these boards. Surely you dont believe that. In the grand scheme of things, the benefits of preventing diptheria, pertussis and tetanus seems to outweigh the risk of a seizure.
    To put odds of 1:1750 in perspective. In a school of 1000 students that means that less than 1 child statistically will have a chance of a seizure r/t a vaccination and this does not state that a seizure will happen as a result of the vaccination.The very real risk of inury or disability from the illness is greater than the miniscule risk from the vaccine.

    Vaccination has been understood as an effective preventative measure since at least the time of Jenner and variolation. Milk maids who caught cowpox were immune to smallpox. With that simple understanding other vaccines have been developed and shown to be effective in the prevention of disease. While it was a very sad event that happened to your child it is not a given that the vaccination encounter caused his seizures. I do encourage you to file a VAERS report with the CDC.
    Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Oct 23, '07
  4. by   Noryn
    Quote from lovthatlea
    'seems' being the operative word. sometimes what seems to be a good thing really isn't. i held my 15 month old while he seized 8xs a day for 3 months not knowing if this seizure would be the one that would kill him. i won't risk that again. my kids are not expendable. if you are trying to avoid diseases don't inject them or pieces of them inside you giving them access to your organs. i found out no doctor on the planet understands the immune system. vaccines are at best a religion. you must have faith they work. there is no real science behind them.
    if you can provide any research proving vaccinations do not work or are not effective then please do. are vaccinations 100 percent effective, of course not but if you can provide any studies proving vaccinations do not prevent disease and do not save lives then let us know. i just find it hard to believe that vaccinations are not effective when the incidence of the specific disease decreases dramatically after the vaccine is used.

    the big problem with vaccinations is that they have been so successful here in the states at wiping out illness that we become too complacent. diptheria, pertussis and tetanus historically and even today kill or sicken large amounts of people. these diseases are still very real and do pose a threat, not as big of a threat here as 100 years ago but only because of vaccinations.

    so my comment about "seems" to be a good idea is factored on this--the vaccination can rarely cause seizures, the actual illness often can cause death.

    but like i said earlier, i know whenever i give or take a medication there is some degree of risk. i read the vaccination chart karen posted and there was an interesting fact. in the 80s children up to 2 years were given 5 total vaccinations, now they are given up to 24--some receive 5 at one time. i honestly can say that concerns me.

    it concerns me because i dont know if the benefit/risk of these newer vaccinations has been established. if the vaccination for rotavirus in 1999 was so safe and the benefits outweigh the risks then why was it pulled after causing intrasusception? then the argument comes along, well that one wasnt safe but the new one is. well they said that one was safe 10 years ago.
  5. by   ElvishDNP
    I can't find any statistics, but just in my short years of dealing with the general population and giving many vaccines and researching those same vaccines in regard to my own and my child's health...

    ....I have found far far more people who are allergic -- badly allergic-- to PCN than I have found people who even had so much as skin irritation where they got their vaccine. Nobody's crying for PCN to be taken off the shelves. Why? Because it can and has saved lives.

    Same dealio with vaccines. Pertussis in adults is out there, and it is very very bad and debilitating for some. I have seen it with my own eyes. Varicella is bad. Flu is horrible at any age, but esp bad in the very old and very young. I do not wish to go back to the day when I worked in a community health center and parents brought in their small child (maybe 2yo) who was gasping for breath, retracting, blue, and on O2 before paramedics came to transport her to the hospital (flu A). See that once. It is torture.

    I understand if you've got a child that previously reacted to a vaccine. By all means, don't give it. The CDC even says that.

    But the statistical odds that you'll get hurt in a car accident - or be allergic to PCN - are far higher than having an adverse reaction to a vaccine. I will try to find some numbers, but I think it's probably a safe bet.
  6. by   lovthatlea
    i'm curious, did your son have the nasopharngeal test to dx the pertussis? and did the doctor do any blood tests to confirm that your son had no immunity against pertussis?

    glad you brought that up. no he refused to confirm or deny pertussis.


    the reason i ask is because of the virility of the different strains out there are horrendous.

    i know...when you keep attenuating strains of virus they do like anything does that wants to live, mutate to something more virulent to survive. another reason to stop vaccination. if it continues super bugs will be the result. kind of like what the prevnar vaccine is doing. here is what dr pinchichero had to say about it...'the use of the vaccine created an ecological vacuum, and that combined with excessive use of antibiotics to create this new superbug,' pichichero said. " now i'm no fan of his but what he says makes sense.
    to put odds of 1:1750 in perspective. in a school of 1000 students that means that less than 1 child statistically will have a chance of a seizure r/t a vaccination and this does not state that a seizure will happen as a result of the vaccination.the very real risk of inury or disability from the illness is greater than the miniscule risk from the vaccine.


    my kids are not expendable. i don't take chances with their health. experiment with yours as you will.


    vaccination has been understood as an effective preventative measure since at least the ime of jenner and variolation.

    you know jenner was not a doctor right? you know syphilis came from cows right? what medicine is still in practice today that was used in the early 1900s? we have microscopes now.


    while it was a very sad event that happened to your child it is not a given that the vaccination encounter caused his seizures. i do encourage you to file a vaers report with the cdc.

    i did file a vaers report. that and $5.50 gets me a chocolate mocha latte at starbucks.

    if you can provide any research proving vaccinations do not work or are not effective then please do.

    no one can prove vaccines work or don't work ...they are a faith. its just like my elephant dog. ever since i've had this dog there have been no elephants in my yard.
    it must be this dog keeping them away!

    you have to ask yourself this question. how does injecting some of the most toxic chemicals on the planet, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, msg, aborted fetal cells, monkey kidney tissue, i could go on but i think you get the point, along with a half dead/dead/live virus into a developing immune system no doctor has a full grasp of? can you poison yourself into immunity? i think not.



    are vaccinations 100 percent effective, of course not but if you can provide any studies proving vaccinations do not prevent disease and do not save lives then let us know. i just find it hard to believe that vaccinations are not effective when the incidence of the specific disease decreases dramatically after the vaccine is used.

    do you have an example of a disease decreasing dramatically? i know scarlet fever never had a vaccine and it is gone. the cdc likes to start the chart in 1940 to make it look like vaccines did something..look at the chart starting in 1900 and you will see the diseases were almost gone when the vaccine came out.


    the big problem with vaccinations is that they have been so successful here in the states at wiping out illness that we become too complacent.

    have they? when you have doctors renaming diseases to fit their needs i think not.
    polio is now called aseptic meningitis.


    diptheria, pertussis and tetanus historically and even today kill or sicken large amounts of people. these diseases are still very real and do pose a threat, not as big of a threat here as 100 years ago but only because of vaccinations.


    most people that come down with the diseases you speak of are vaccinated. when you inject inside kids virus it sheds causing more outbreaks.



    so my comment about "seems" to be a good idea is factored on this--the vaccination can rarely cause seizures,

    with odds like 1 in 1750 i'd play the lottery.

    the actual illness often can cause death.


    only if its mismanaged.


    but like i said earlier, i know whenever i give or take a medication there is some degree of risk. i read the vaccination chart karen posted and there was an interesting fact. in the 80s children up to 2 years were given 5 total vaccinations, now they are given up to 24--some receive 5 at one time. i honestly can say that concerns me.


    it should.


    it concerns me because i dont know if the benefit/risk of these newer vaccinations has been established.

    it hasn't been. our kids are the experiment...one in 150 is autistic i think we are losing.

    if the vaccination for rotavirus in 1999 was so safe and the benefits outweigh the risks then why was it pulled after causing intrasusception? then the argument comes along, well that one wasnt safe but the new one is. well they said that one was safe 10 years ago.

    now you are getting it...question vaccination.
  7. by   Jolie
    do you have an example of a disease decreasing dramatically? i know scarlet fever never had a vaccine and it is gone.

    really??!! then i wonder what my daughter had when she was strep (+), developed a rash all over her body, and then experienced peeling skin, as though she had been scalded. that was one loonngg miserable week! i can assure you that scarlet fever is alive and well, and particularly frightening in my home where everyone but me is allergic to penicillin.
  8. by   AprilRNhere
    I think vaccinations are good...but should not be required. I feel sad that parents feel the need to claim a religion they don't have...so that they aren't forced to do something they don't agree with to their children.
  9. by   lovthatlea
    My daughter had scarlet fever as well. I half wonder if it was from her prevnar vaccine since it contains about 7 strep strains. The first time she got it I did the antibiotics.. it came back in 3 days...next time I went to a homeopath...3 little pills for 3 days and we've never seen it again. Maybe a vaccine will come out for it. We need a few more on the already bloated schedule.
  10. by   lovthatlea
    Agreed. If someone really believes in vaccines they should be allowed to practice their religion. If they don't, its no ones business but the parents.
  11. by   sharona97
    Quote from lovthatlea
    My daughter had scarlet fever as well. I half wonder if it was from her prevnar vaccine since it contains about 7 strep strains. The first time she got it I did the antibiotics.. it came back in 3 days...next time I went to a homeopath...3 little pills for 3 days and we've never seen it again. Maybe a vaccine will come out for it. We need a few more on the already bloated schedule.
    Was the Scarlet Fever dx'd this time or did the doc refuse to commit? Or maybe you used a different doctor this time.
  12. by   elkpark
    Quote from lovthatlea
    you know jenner was not a doctor right? you know syphilis came from cows right? what medicine is still in practice today that was used in the early 1900s? we have microscopes now.
    where did you get the idea that edward jenner was not a physician? he had an md, was a practicing physician, and published numerous scholarly papers in british medical journals on a variety of topics besides his experiments with vaccination.

    jenner and his colleagues had microscopes -- they've around since the 16th century (granted, a few refinements have been made since then, but the microscope as we know it has been around that long). also, there are plenty of medications still used today that were around at the turn of the 20th century -- many much older than that. asa, digitalis, and morphine come to mind immediately; i'm sure i could come up with a long list if i bothered to do any research.

    if you "don't take chances with your kids' health," than i assume you never permit them to ride in a car, ride a bike, or participate in sports, right? all those activities are well-known to be dangerous, and kids all over the country get hurt or killed doing them every day ...
  13. by   Jolie
    Quote from Aprilhere
    I think vaccinations are good...but should not be required. I feel sad that parents feel the need to claim a religion they don't have...so that they aren't forced to do something they don't agree with to their children.
    April,

    Vaccines ARE a matter of parental choice. The issue is whether children who are not vaccinated against diseases that are readily transmitted in the school setting should be allowed to place their classmates and teachers at risk by attending public schools. My opinion is that they should not.

    I have some questions for the posters who believe that they should be able to opt out of school vaccines (for reasons other than medical contra-indication), yet still send their children to public schools. Your children place their classmates and teachers at risk for infectious diseases, and you seem to think that other parents should just accept that risk. What are your beliefs about a parent who sends his/her child to school with head lice and infests your child? Would you be upset over a non-life-threatening infestation and want that child excluded from school? Isn't it that parent's right to send his/her child? What about a child with TB whose parents refuse to treat their child? Should that child be allowed in school even though his/her presence threatens the health of others? Do you object to your child being exposed to second hand smoke? If so, why? If you are willing to place your child's classmates at risk of disease shouldn't you accept some risk yourself?

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