Vaccination fears fuel increase in exemptions sought, AP finds - page 3
BOSTON - Sabrina Rahim doesn't practice any particular faith, but she had no problem signing a letter declaring that because of her deeply held religious beliefs, her 4-year-old son should be exempt... Read More
Oct 19, '07Fatcat,
I just viewed your post, it is in nursing news forum. I watched the Jenny McCarthy video from the view and agree with her that not all autism is caused by vaccinations. Very interesting conversation on "treating" the autism with diet.
I just wanted to let you know it is posted and where. Thanks for sharing all the information.
Oct 19, '07[quote=edvaleriern;2455385]
to those of you who don't want un-vaccinated kids attending public school: if you're so sure your vaccine works, why are you so worried? seriously, not trying to be smart, i really want to know.
like all medications, vaccinations are not 100% effective. it is possible to be fully vaccinated against a particular disease, yet not sero-convert, which indicates immunity. i am a good example. i received the mmr as a pre-schooler, and again in middle school when there was an outbreak of measles in our area. when i entered nursing schools, titres indicated that i was not immune to measles. i was vaccinated again. 10 years later, while undergoing infertility treatment, i had titres drawn again. still not immune. vaccinated again, and bingo i finally sero-converted to immune status. had i been exposed to measles during the first 30 years of my life, i could have contracted it or passed it on unwittingly to others. it is a known fact that approzimately 80% of people who are vaccinated against any particular disease actually receive protection from it. the other 20% rely on herd immunity for protection. also, as a previous poster mentioned, immunity tends to wane over time, so older adults working in schools are somewhat more likely than children to become infected or pass on infections to others in the community.
certain vaccines are only somewhat effective, yet, they are required. my daughter will recieve the dtap (mainly for the pertussis benefit), the mmr, the polio, and the hib. i will not give her the rotavirus vaccine (because she's not in an at-risk population, and the recent link to intersussception of bowel), the varicella vaccine (marginally effective, and wears off), or the hep b vaccine (as she will not be shooting up or having unprotected sex any time soon). we will delay the mmr until she is at least three years of age (due to the autism links previously reported). my family will have the flu shot, however, she will not. i will make a joint decision with her when she is older regarding the hpv vaccine. i don't feel it's been around long enough to really make an educated decision yet. i'm undecided on prevnar, however, i'm leaning towards no.
i agree with you that not every child needs every vaccine, and believe that you are wise to consider the risks/benefits of each. you mention the rotavirus vaccine, which i don't believe is rquired for school entry. rotavirus is an infection that usually poses little threat to school age children, and as such i don't believe that school districts require it. daycare and pre-school, possibly, though. i'm also not aware of school districts requiring prevnar. as for the hpv vaccine, i strongly believe that it is inappropriate to require it for school. hpv is not a disease that is readily communicable in the school setting, and as such, i believe that school districts have no business mandating it. i may very well choose to have my girls vaccinated, but it will be a family decision, not a school district mandate that prompts me to do so.
some of you talk about parents that don't vaccinate like they're ignorant... i find that they're really much more educated about the risks/benefits than the general population.
i don't believe that parents who make informed decisions about vaccination are ignorant. i do get very tired of the constant repetition of the autism threat, which is not supported by scientific evidence, and i believe that there are parents who use that as their excuse for not vaccinating rather than taking the time to research the risks and benefits themselves. i also believe that we have the luxury of having this debate because vaccination has been so effective in nearly eliminating diseases that used to kill thousands of children yearly.
Oct 19, '07Here is my logic behind it, in life we have choices. If a patient does not medicine although the benefits outweigh the risk it is THEIR choice. It does not make them wacky. Not every culture requires or believes in vaccinations and I find it egocentric to assume it is because of lack of education. As long as the parent understands the possible consequences, but required treatment, I don't agree with.
Oct 20, '07Except for when their child becomes deaf, blind or otherwise disabled from a communicable disease that is vaccine preventable. Then we all end up paying for special education services etc forever.
I think parents should have the choice but I also think that as providers we need to keep educating and teaching about the importance of vaccination.
As to the HepB question. I personally think that everyone should be vaccinated against both Hep B and Hep A.
Environmental mercury sources are probably a far greater threat than any single vaccination encounter.Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Oct 20, '07
Oct 20, '07I'd like to add to Viking's thoughts as well,
In today's restaraunt and food chains and food industries environment, hepatitis is very contagious and at times follows a rampant path. Handwashing is so very important and that is a great line of defense against disease, thus teaching our children that importance by example is very important.
Oct 20, '07Quote from marikat534But the parent and child are not the only ones who are subject to the consequences of refusing to vaccinate against diseases that are readily transmitted in the school setting. If an unvaccinated child posed no threat to anyone other than him/herself and family, I would have no problem with your argument. But they do, and can cause harm to others. Where should personal rights end when they result in harm to others?Here is my logic behind it, in life we have choices. If a patient does not medicine although the benefits outweigh the risk it is THEIR choice. It does not make them wacky. Not every culture requires or believes in vaccinations and I find it egocentric to assume it is because of lack of education. As long as the parent understands the possible consequences, but required treatment, I don't agree with.
Oct 20, '07My daughter has received all the recommended vaccines with no ill effect. On a personal level, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if she suffered permanent or even transient damage from an illness that I refused to vaccinate her against because of my own 'beliefs'.
Oct 20, '07Quote from JolieSo you're saying right there that vaccines don't work that well. If they did, these diseases wouldn't be transmitted to vaccinated people. They wear off. They don't work sometimes. I'm just not understanding the rationale here.But the parent and child are not the only ones who are subject to the consequences of refusing to vaccinate against diseases that are readily transmitted in the school setting. If an unvaccinated child posed no threat to anyone other than him/herself and family, I would have no problem with your argument. But they do, and can cause harm to others. Where should personal rights end when they result in harm to others?
Understandable that exposure from mercury in the environment is a problem... but I don't think that is really a factor when deciding to inject it into a two-month old's body or not. Really, I think that would be even less of a reason to vaccinate. They're already exposed to so much poison, why add to it?
Oct 20, '07Quote from LotteYou're saying that now... after everything turned out OK. I work with a woman whose son has autism. She blames herself for his debilitating disease because she vaccinated blindly without researching. No, she doesn't believe the vaccination was the sole cause of the disease, but she does believe it was one thing in a cascade of events. Her son has suffered permanent damage, and she is having a hard time living with herself.My daughter has received all the recommended vaccines with no ill effect. On a personal level, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if she suffered permanent or even transient damage from an illness that I refused to vaccinate her against because of my own 'beliefs'.
I say this because it can go both ways. Fear is understandable, and it is a heavy decision that parents must make. Either way, bad things can happen. I think if a parent is educated and makes an informed decision, then either way it was a good choice. What I am opposed to is someone telling me that I have to do something, and then me blindly following their advice.
Oct 20, '07Here is a possible rationale.
Years ago people died very young and often from diseases like , whooping cough, diptheria, smallpox, tetnus,etc. There were no antibiotics and no vaccines avaiable.
Today people are living longer for many reasons. One is that the vaccine for smallpox was given and actually irradicated from this country at one time. That is a good thing.
Because as an individual gets older and vaccine protection lessens, doesn't mean they will always be reinfected with something they have been vaccinated against, but the possibility is there. You could go to a grocery store and a person could cough on you and you will not know is this a simple respiratory event, or TB, or whooping cough, etc. This does not mean that the original vaccination did not work, it is our own bodies defense system (immune system) that the particular vaccination has reduced it's protective qualities. That is why we revaccinate for tetnus.
I found Jenny McCarthy's statement about how about testing infants to see if their immune system can handle all of the vaccinations and somehow tell us if autism is a possibility, a very profound statement. Is this possible today, I don't know. But I would love to read any information on testing of this kind.
I hope this may give you a different perspective on this subject, without takig away your beliefs.
Oct 20, '07Quote from edvaleriernif you object to mercury preservatives in vaccines, you can request preservative-free formulations. it may require advanced planning so that your provider can have single-dose vaccines available, but it is not a reason to avoid vaccinations altogether.so you're saying right there that vaccines don't work that well. if they did, these diseases wouldn't be transmitted to vaccinated people. they wear off. they don't work sometimes. i'm just not understanding the rationale here.
no medication or treatement is 100% effective. vaccines are no exception, but they do work quite well, as evidenced by the dramatic decrease in life-threatening and deadly infectious diseases such as measles, mumps, rubella, polio, smallpox, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, etc. i daresay that few of us engaged in this debate have ever witnessed a case of these diseases, unlike previous generations when they were commonplace. herd immunity is an important factor in the success of vaccinations, since the vast majority of people who receive vaccines do sero-convert and protect those who don't develop immunity. the problem is that the effectiveness of herd immunity is seriously compromised when a large number of people opt out of vaccinations for non-medical reasons. you are correct that the effectiveness of some vaccines wanes with time. it has not been a huge problem in our population because adults with waning immunity are not usually exposed to the childhood diseases the vaccines protect against. it is becoming more of a problem as fewer and fewer children are vaccinated, creating a larger pool of susceptible hosts who contract and/or spread these diseases. we may indeed see a time when adults will require boosters to many childhood diseases due to the lower vaccination rates of children.
understandable that exposure from mercury in the environment is a problem... but i don't think that is really a factor when deciding to inject it into a two-month old's body or not. really, i think that would be even less of a reason to vaccinate. they're already exposed to so much poison, why add to it?
Oct 20, '07Quote from multicollinearityIt's fear of more than autism. God only knows what's really in those vaccines. Don't you ever wonder why, every year, a new flu virus knows to come out of hiding? And always at "flu season".I think my parents meant well, but typical for them, they were off base.
So yes, at the age of 32, I got vaccinated for everything in preparation for nursing school. It was darn hard to get healthcare providers to believe me that I never had any shots. My PCP had to call the CDC's hotline to figure out which shots to give me. I ended up getting things like Adacel but not HiB.
I think people who ride herd immunity are selfish. However, I do understand autism fears.
Oct 21, '07Years ago we attached leeches to suck out the "bad blood", years ago people didn't bath except once a week, years ago people believed they were being punished by the divine. I can make a list of years ago.
Now to the scientific factor, we did not have the medicine available we do now. We also have more knowledge about diseases, their processes, and treatment. It is uncommon for children to die of diseases in the United States that 50 years ago were common place.
Herd immunity is so even the unvaccinated can be protected. If a parent is given education and says no, how does that make the parent a bad person? We have people that refuse treatments for children all the time due to feelings and beliefs. We cannot be egocentric, instead respectful of the parents right to choose.