Vaccinate your kids, or go to JAIL?!? - page 5

Here's the article. I was watching this last night and there were THOUSANDS of parents at the courthouse.... Read More

  1. by   rph3664
    Quote from wtbcrna
    So, you think it is better to risk death of a child (around 100 people in the US died each yr before the implementation of the chicken pox vaccine) or hospitalization before implemenation of the vaccine(approx 10,500 before the implentation of the vaccine).

    Statistics from the CDC.
    I'll bet that most of the 100 people who died from chickenpox, or were hospitalized from it, were adults, or children with suppressed immune systems.

    JMHO.

    My brother's pediatrician did not give Varivax until immunity was mandatory in Iowa for school attendance, unless the child had some sort of immune deficiency (AIDS, steroid treatment, cancer, etc.). She is STILL reluctant to do so because of CP being such a serious disease in an adult.
  2. by   rph3664
    And another thing regarding the MMR.

    Most of us know that rubella, when contracted during the first trimester of pregnancy, can cause blindness, deafness, mental retardation, heart defects, etc. I grew up with a family whose daughter was partially blind and partially deaf from this; she could have attended regular school had she been one or the other, but she went to special school because she had 2 disabilities. And I knew other people who had someone in their family who was challenged because of this.

    Very few people know that when rubella is contracted during the first month of pregnancy, when the brain is starting to form and Mom doesn't even suspect she's pregnant, the incident of autism is extremely high. I wonder how many of the middle-aged and older people I've heard about with autism had this happen - and chances are, their moms didn't even know they were sick.

    Not a small number of thalidomide-exposed children are autistic as well. This isn't publicized much and I first heard about it in a fascinating book about the drug called "Dark Remedy." One of the doctors who heavily promoted thalidomide in Europe was a former Nazi physician, and one wonders what really went on behind the scenes regarding that drug, which I have dispensed on several occasions for multiple myeloma.

    Back on topic.

    Has anyone here actually SEEN a child, their own, a friend's or relative's, or a patient, who was truly damaged by MMR? I see stuff all over the Web but have never spoken to ANYONE who has personally linked these two things.

    I do have a Web friend on another board whose late daughter was damaged by the old DPT. People who have this reaction should never have it again, nor should their first degree relatives, and until it happens, it's impossible to know who might have this reaction. You don't see it as much now with the acellular vaccine.

    I collect old medical books, and what's the weirdest vaccine I've heard about? Acne. Someone in the 1930s cooked up a witch's brew of zit bacteria and tried to immunize teenagers with this. It didn't work.
  3. by   mercyteapot
    I remain pro-choice about vaccines, although I do believe that it is important to have public records about who is and who isn't vaccinated for the safety of everyone during outbreaks. As with any other right, your right to choose what health and safety precautions you choose for your child is not absolute. It comes with responsibilities to the other people, one of which is the need to file a waiver if you also choose to avail your child of their right to a publicly funded education.

    I also think it is important for the parents of girls to remember that many diseases which do not usually cause last complications in childhood can produce devastating complications if contracted during pregnancy. That, along with what can happen in the instances when these diseases do cause complications during childhood, make the choice to vaccinate or not vaccinate less clear cut than either side might have one believe. A neighbor of mine was close friends with a family who lost a child to chicken pox here. My son went to the same pediatric practice as this child. My sister developed encephalitis s/t the measles and the resulting neurological issues looked very much like autism. Yes, things like this are rare, but ask the moms of these kids if they'd have made different choices about vaccines and I'm sure they'd answer yes.
  4. by   rph3664
    I've heard of measles encephalitis. It killed or damaged lots of kids back in the day, and it happens to children who contract it now.

    My mom has a cousin with post-polio syndrome, and he has suffered terribly from it in recent years. Nobody needs to go through that now.
  5. by   Bree124
    Quote from rph3664
    Has anyone here actually SEEN a child, their own, a friend's or relative's, or a patient, who was truly damaged by MMR? I see stuff all over the Web but have never spoken to ANYONE who has personally linked these two things.
    Yes, emphatically. A friend's daughter was vaccinated with the MMR - a normal, bright, cheerful, developmentally-advanced little girl. 9 days later, her mother found her in her bed, unconscious, covered in vomit and feces. She'd had several seizures, and is not expected to ever become fully "normal." At almost two years of age (10 months after this happened), she is just starting to walk again, and still has partial paralysis on the left side of her body. They had every specialist in the book trying to figure out what had happened to this little girl, and several of them told the mother that it had probably been a vaccine reaction. Her pediatrician refused to report it as a vax reaction, saying that it was a one in a million chance. Well, someone has to be that 1/1,000,000, right?? One of the other physicians involved in the case ended up reporting it.
  6. by   Bree124
    I just wanted to add (because reading my posts, I sound very anti-vax) that we do vaccinate our children, but on a delayed schedule starting when they are two. We've also skipped the chicken pox vaccine, but will get it for our children if they have not naturally contracted CP by about age 9-10. I still believe very firmly that no parents should be forced to have their children vaccinated if they are unwilling to sign an exemption that is not in line with their beliefs.
  7. by   mercyteapot
    There really are alternatives to the vaccine assault to which older children were exposed. Parents can insist that vaccines be administered separately and at longer intervals. It takes some assertiveness and out of pocket payments, but it can be done.
  8. by   classicdame
    I took care of a precious 3 yr old girl whose parents did not get her vaccinated because they figured if everyone else was vaccinated she would be ok. She died from complications due to chicken pox. I cannot forget the faces of those grief-stricken parents.
  9. by   Bree124
    Classicdame - what about the grief-stricken faces of parents who lost their children to vaccine injury, whether it be by death or long-term neurological injury? The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program exists for a very real reason. There is no way to say whether that little three year old would have died or had catastrophic neurological damage as a result of a vaccine reaction. This isn't a clear-cut area - there are risks and benefits to both sides. Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing if your child will be the fluke who will react to a vaccine, and there is no way of knowing if your child will be the fluke who dies from chicken pox.
  10. by   oneLoneNurse
    Philadelphia, had a case of a sect refusing vaccinations about 20 years ago. Kids died because they had not had the vaccinations. I think in the scheme of things vaccinations are the less risk way to go.
  11. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from Bree124
    This isn't a clear-cut area - there are risks and benefits to both sides. Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing if your child will be the fluke who will react to a vaccine, and there is no way of knowing if your child will be the fluke who dies from chicken pox.
    Basically, it comes down to statistics it is much safer for everyone to get the vaccine with occasional rare side-effects vs. not getting the vaccine and having minimal to moderate chance of having a severe side-effect or even death from the illness.
    Don't forget we have wiped out small-pox, and it is predicted that polio will be wiped out if the world vaccination program keeps on track. There are several diseases that could be eradicated with same management plan.
  12. by   BabyRN2Be
    Quote from Noryn
    So I am confused. Is there a flaw in this system or if you belong to a particular religion you can be a public health risk?
    I find this last statement a little interesting.

    Before my daughter was born, I interviewed a highly recommended pediatrician. My first inclination was for my daughter to not have routine vax, or at least delayed. When I brought this up to my daughter's future pediatrician, her reply was very interesting.

    A little background: We live in a suburb of a medium-sized city in the Midwest. In this town is a sort of "megachurch" - and it may be too small to be considered a megachurch, but it is still very large. One of the tenets of their faith is that parents need to have faith that God is going to protect their kids and that parents should not immunize their children.

    The result? In our city, there has been a huge resurgence of childhood diseases that had been very rare in this area. The pediatrician said that because of this church, she recommends that all children living in this city be immunized. She said that if I had lived within the larger city limits should would not be as concerned about my child not receiving the immunizations but because we live in this suburb, she is very concerned about the kids living here and possibly being exposed to diseases that were previously very rare.

    However, she left it up to my husband and I to decide what to do for our baby. After all that my baby has been through (a month in the NICU after her birth), I've become a little more protective of her. At a recent appointment I had made the remark that I was concerned about pertussis. The ped said, "It's funny you should mention that. I've just admitted a child into PICU with pertussis. It's becoming a huge problem in this area because of [the church who doesn't vaccinate]." We are getting the DtaP for Brianna at least, but she's letting us delay others. She has no problem with Brianna not receiving the Hep B shot at all. I appreciate that she's being open to our concerns while protecting the children in her practice by suggesting which vaccines to immunize Brianna with now and delaying others.

    Long story short: it's very interesting that one church's beliefs are becoming a public health threat in this area. Sorry I got a little long-winded there, but I did appreciate this ped's education on problems in this area and the reasons why it's important for a child in this suburb to get vaccinated. As the ped said, one afternoon at the local Wal-Mart can make a child potentially very sick.

    ETA: I hadn't seen OneLoneNurse's post before I had made mine. She talks about a sect not vaccinating their kids and children dying. That's more or less what's happening in this area because of one large church.
    Last edit by BabyRN2Be on Nov 21, '07
  13. by   rph3664
    Quote from classicdame
    I took care of a precious 3 yr old girl whose parents did not get her vaccinated because they figured if everyone else was vaccinated she would be ok. She died from complications due to chicken pox. I cannot forget the faces of those grief-stricken parents.
    I just remembered this.

    Our parents didn't deliberately expose us to chicken pox because they heard about a child whose parents did this, and he got varicella encephalitis and was left severely retarded.

    Chances are, this might have happened regardless of how he was exposed but we will never know.

    As for the megachurch, I've never been a Metallica fan but its singer, James Hetfield, was raised in the Christian Scientist faith and saw his mother die unnecessarily of cancer when he was quite young. He once addressed this issue and that he heard many times that animals don't go to doctors unless we take them, and he said, "If a deer knew how to fix a broken leg, it would."

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