Union asks nurses at the University of Massachusetts to OK strike - page 3

union asks nurses at the university of massachusetts to ok strike... Read More

  1. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Ezra73
    however, you can become an RN with 2 yrs of college (i'm not talking LPN).
    Again, you are so wrong about this. There's no point in wasting time debating this issue with someone who cleary doesn't even have basic knowledge about nursing education requirements.

    You may claim to be an RN, but I don't believe you are.

    If you want to be a management shill, you may want to do some more research before making ridiculous claims that have no basis in fact. You obviously have no credibility.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Oct 26, '06
  2. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from Ezra73
    a strike of any kind by a healthcare provider (actually, its usually only RNs) disgusts me. it puts patients at risk...PERIOD.

    i could care less if a CEO makes over a million bucks. why not just be angry at every politician that uses our tax dollars to eat the finest foods, drink the finest wines, and travel in luxury jets and/or limos. being a CEO has its perks politically, socially, and with great monetary rewards. THIS IS WITH EVERY INSTITUTION IN EVERY INDUSTRY.

    the bottom-line is that quality RNs will walk out the door and leave patients at risk.

    almost every union RN here will blast me with some justification for striking, but it will fall on deaf ears because no matter how you attempt to explain yourself, the fact is that you are leaving the bed side. By taking your skills to the picket lines you are doing nothing more than putting patient's lives in danger. you will not be there and you will leave a nurse with less experience to do your job. then, you will blame the institution and/or CEO for this to cover up the fact that you just are sore that your own greed was not met with open arms by the employer that puts food on your table.
    This is a variation of the nurse as angel analogy: don't you know that good little angels don't complain. So, buck up and get back to work.

    My former employer summed this philosophy up: "I just don't understand nurses in it for the money." Professionals ARE in it for the money. Period. However angelic, nurses are highly trained expert professionals and that deserves a level of respect and renumeration consistent with the time and experience to gain those skills. Period.

    It is BECAUSE hospitals no longer provide the resources in time to fulfill the desire to be 'called' that nurses are leaving in droves. If you don't allow for this type of non-monetary compensation, then nurses look at the bottom line. And that bottom line is not enough to 'buck up' anymore. And this is true for more and more nurses.

    Respect is earned. Until employers pay a real 'reservation' wage for nurses, nurses will not get the respect their labor deserves. Solving all of management's problems for them by 'bucking up' is NOT the way to earn that respect. I think the term for it is thusly: there's a sucker born every minute.

    It's perfectly acceptable to be 'called' to nursing. It is NOT acceptable to use that as the means to advocate for the continued lack of respect that tolerating poor environments and pay engenders. That is why more and more nurses walk away, called or not. And that is the essense of your argument: respect is not as important as the job.

    I disagree. With enough money offered somebody will always step up to do the job. Respect is an essential necessity to my well-being. I will not trade that respect to barter for moral obligations not inherently mine. I'm not that angelic.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Oct 26, '06
  3. by   MuddaMia
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    I'm not that angelic.
    :yeahthat:
  4. by   nuangel1
    Quote from Ezra73
    a lot of RNs work three 12hr shifts a week. others work four 10hr shifts a week or five 8hr shifts a week. oh, and make great money.

    do a lot of you even have a vague idea of what a lot of other people do? there are countless millions that get up daily at 5am only to drive 1hr+ to work. put in 9hrs in the office only to get home at 6-7pm. they do this mon-fri. oh, and do it for less money. the healthcare industry is only 1 small piece of the working class pie folks.

    so your point is what that salaries vary .we still as nurses have a right to stand up for ourselves -better pay benefits work hrs etc .just cuz you are willing to work 15-16 hrs without a break doesn't make it correct nor means the rest of us should do same.
  5. by   Ezra73
    Quote from lizz
    Again, you are so wrong about this. There's no point in wasting time debating this issue with someone who cleary doesn't even have basic knowledge about nursing education requirements.

    You may claim to be an RN, but I don't believe you are.

    If you want to be a management shill, you may want to do some more research before making ridiculous claims that have no basis in fact. You obviously have no credibility.

    :typing
    believe me or not, i really don't care. i was an RN briefly and now an NP. i'm not going to waste my time with you arguing over my credentials. there is no point lying about what i do online with people i will likely never meet.

    my credibility lies within my posts and there have been few here that have really provided any sort of solid arguments that hold any substantial weight. mostly, i am just reading emotional defenses/justifications.

    i really find it petty, simple-minded, and basically just ridiculous to attack my credibility simply because i was off with some aspects of RN education requirements that i did not have to use. i had a BS in another field and then when back to school to obtain my MSN. yes, i am one of those NPs that most RNs hate because i did the PA-like program. that's a whole different argument that will not be addressed here because it's not relative to the topic at hand.
  6. by   Ezra73
    Quote from nuangel1
    so your point is what that salaries vary .we still as nurses have a right to stand up for ourselves -better pay benefits work hrs etc .just cuz you are willing to work 15-16 hrs without a break doesn't make it correct nor means the rest of us should do same.
    i agree, but you are already well-compensated and the fact that you want more appears greedy to a lot of people. who, in turn, lose respect for you.

    i know many RNs that work three 12hr shifts and make over 100K/yr. yet, i also know of ATTENDING MDs that make 100-130K/yr and work more hours and have a greater responsibility than an RN ultimately has.

    what is your justification for striking when you're already compensated so well? all i can see (and a lot of other people) is simply greed. why do you feel that you deserve an MD's salary when an MD has far more education, student loans, hours per week, responsibility, etc.? what is your justification for this?

    i know not all RNs make this much, but many do...and they strike.
  7. by   MuddaMia
    Quote from Ezra73
    believe me or not, i really don't care. i was an RN briefly and now an NP. i'm not going to waste my time with you arguing over my credentials. there is no point lying about what i do online with people i will likely never meet.

    my credibility lies within my posts and there have been few here that have really provided any sort of solid arguments that hold any substantial weight. mostly, i am just reading emotional defenses/justifications.

    i really find it petty, simple-minded, and basically just ridiculous to attack my credibility simply because i was off with some aspects of RN education requirements that i did not have to use. i had a BS in another field and then when back to school to obtain my MSN. yes, i am one of those NPs that most RNs hate because i did the PA-like program. that's a whole different argument that will not be addressed here because it's not relative to the topic at hand.
    I think there are quite a few valid, well thought out arguments oppossing you on this thread. I think Timothy hit the nail on the head when he touched on the whole Florence Nightengale-Its a Calling-Angel Wings persona. For you, and others that think like you--you cannot hear our intelligent opposition because you are too wrapped up in the"importance" of your calling and shining up that halo. For the rest of us, we feel our careers AS WELL as our health and our families well-being deserve equal respect and weight in the debate.
  8. by   MuddaMia
    Quote from Ezra73
    i had a BS in another field and then when back to school to obtain my MSN.
    So...when exactly (and for how long) were you a staff RN? This could explain alot as to why you seem to have NO grasp on the work environment that RN's are dissatisfied with
  9. by   pickledpepperRN
    I will strike, if all other options are exhausted, for my patients and my community.
    Also for my soul.
    Never again will I allow greedy budget/profit driven care to kill patients! Not without a fight.

    If it is considered emotional to want to care for my patients, OK. Good for human emotion.
    Millionaire CEOs must provide working equipment, supplies, medication, and sufficient staffing for safe, therapeutic, effective care.
    WE have given strike notices, WE signed petitions, WE threatened to leaflet every day until our demands for what OUR patients needed was provided. WE didn't have to do any of these because they knew we would.

    WE are kind to our new grads and newly hired staff. WE have little parties for ALL staff no matter their job description. Some of us have worked together for decades. Attended each others weddings, baby showers, had each others kids over while others of us worked. WE have consoled each other when parents, spouses, and once a child died. WE LOVE EACH OTHER. RN, LVN, aide, clerk, housekeeper, and most of our physicians.
    We respect each other because our work is important.
    Our children still need a home and the necessities of life.

    WE WILL strike greedy management because WE are the ones who have cared for patients every day and night, weekend, and holiday through many changes of ever worsening higher paid management.
    WE cannot trust anyone who does no useful work yet tries to make US the problem.
  10. by   Sheri257
    Quote from Ezra73
    i really find it petty, simple-minded, and basically just ridiculous to attack my credibility simply because i was off with some aspects of RN education requirements that i did not have to use.
    Simply off ... Really? Let me remind you what you said on this subject.

    Quote from Ezra73
    you are absolutely delusional if you think management is screwing RNs over with regards to salary.

    please tell me how many other jobs out there allow a person to go to school 2 years longer than high school and make over $60K/yr soon after graduation!!!

    RNs make a lot of money...especially in the northeast. RNs striking over salary is, sadly, an example of what our society has become nowadays. people want MORE for LESS.
    You were blasting RN's for wanting to make more money with only two years of college education ... and you were dead wrong about the number years it takes to become an RN.

    Even if you want to take your case into account, you could not have become an RN in just two years ... since presumably, the previous bachelor's that got you into the program took the standard four years.

    It's not petty or simple minded ... it's just the facts, which you so conveniently ignored.

    If you don't like people pointing that out then, maybe you should do more research before you make such outrageous statements.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Oct 26, '06
  11. by   Ezra73
    Quote from MuddaMia
    I think there are quite a few valid, well thought out arguments oppossing you on this thread. I think Timothy hit the nail on the head when he touched on the whole Florence Nightengale-Its a Calling-Angel Wings persona. For you, and others that think like you--you cannot hear our intelligent opposition because you are too wrapped up in the"importance" of your calling and shining up that halo. For the rest of us, we feel our careers AS WELL as our health and our families well-being deserve equal respect and weight in the debate.
    well said and i don't disagree with the possibility of me having a different outlook on things. maybe i was just raised to work "too hard" and maybe that is a fault of mine...not a bad fault, however. i used to work construction 12+ hrs/day in the summer months paving, and did this for not a lot of cash. i always strived to succeed and i have a work hard/play hard mentality.
  12. by   Ezra73
    Quote from MuddaMia
    So...when exactly (and for how long) were you a staff RN? This could explain alot as to why you seem to have NO grasp on the work environment that RN's are dissatisfied with
    not long. however, i do work hand in hand with RNs daily. i've done this for years and know a lot of them well. we talk about the issues at hand. there is a large mix of opinions.
  13. by   Ezra73
    Quote from lizz
    Simply off ... Really? Let me remind you what you said on this subject.



    You were blasting RN's for wanting to make more money with only two years of college education ... and you were dead wrong about the number years it takes to become an RN.

    Even if you want to take your case into account, you could not have become an RN in just two years ... since presumably, the previous bachelor's that got you into the program took the standard four years.

    It's not petty or simple minded ... it's just the facts, which you so conveniently ignored.

    If you don't like people pointing that out then, maybe you should do more research before you make such outrageous statements.

    :typing
    nothing was ignored and i already made it a point to explain that i was wrong with the pre-reqs. i know of 2 people that did become RNs in just 2 years only to find out after i posted that they had a prior BA in other fields. i also know there are a few associate RN programs around me that i never needed to use. i was simply not aware that these HS to RN programs required a great deal of pre-reqs. i'm sure some people can complete the pre-reqs in a shorter period of time than others. so, let's not let this 1 issue cloud the entire debate.

    i am still entitled to my beliefs about current RNs regardless of how they received his/her credentials.

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