Turning single parents into nurses - page 8

(New York-WABC, December 12, 2006) -- There is a unique free program aimed at filling the acute shortage of nurses and, perhaps more importantly, getting single parents educated and back into the... Read More

  1. by   EmmaG
    I've only read a few posts so far, but let me see if I understand the mindset of a few here...

    You feel welfare recipients are a drain on our resources and contribute nothing of value to our society; you resent having "your" tax moneys spent to support those who do not work. You're against supporting able-bodied people who don't have a job.

    A program is in place to assist those receiving welfare to get education in a field that pretty much guarantees them full time employment for the rest of their working lives; that assures they will become tax payers rather than a drain on the system--- a far greater return for the minimal investment applied. And you're against that, too.

    So, to recap:

    You feel welfare moms should get off their butts and go to work--- but want nothing done to assist them to get off their butts and go to work. (oh, and let's not forget 'why bother, their work ethic sucks', too)

    Gotcha.
  2. by   HM2VikingRN
    What is owed those at the bottom of the economic dogpile is the opportunity to improve themselves. This is best done according to the best evidence is access to affordable higher education. We owe them the shot because that is the essence of the American Dream. We are not givng them anything special or favorable treatment just the chance to reinvent their lives. I would much rather remove the barriers to achievement through well designed and targeted assistance. Putting work requirements for child care assistance is asinine when an individual is going to school, doing well and treating it like a job. There isn't one person who has posted here on this topic who has not received unconditional assistance from others at some point. Who pays for the public school education? Who pays for public health measures such as immunizations? If you received your nurses training from a public university or community college you received tuition subsidies of some form from taxpayers. If you took a stafford loan there was some taxpayer subsidy involved. Nobody makes it completely through their own efforts in America.

    A program such as this is a two-fer. Parents are given the help to attain job skills that pay a living wage. Their children gain the benefit of seeing their parents hold a job that pays a living wage. THe follow on to this is that kids who grow up in middle class homes tend to become middle class productive adults. Education breaks the cycle of poverty.
  3. by   SharonH, RN
    Quote from Emmanuel Goldstein
    I've only read a few posts so far, but let me see if I understand the mindset of a few here...

    You feel welfare recipients are a drain on our resources and contribute nothing of value to our society; you resent having "your" tax moneys spent to support those who do not work. You're against supporting able-bodied people who don't have a job.

    A program is in place to assist those receiving welfare to get education in a field that pretty much guarantees them full time employment for the rest of their working lives; that assures they will become tax payers rather than a drain on the system--- a far greater return for the minimal investment applied. And you're against that, too.

    So, to recap:

    You feel welfare moms should get off their butts and go to work--- but want nothing done to assist them to get off their butts and go to work. (oh, and let's not forget 'why bother, their work ethic sucks', too)

    Gotcha.


    I don't know how this thread came to be about welfare recipients. The topic was a program to help single parents. All single parents are not on welfare. And not all people on welfare are single parents. Just to clarify.


    Ya know Emmanuel, I am as liberal as the next person. People who have posted on this board for a long time and who remember me from the current events forum will know that about me. But as for being "against supporting able-bodied people who don't have a job", count me in that group.

    But this topic is not about that. Really, it's about the idea that we can take a group of people with limited choices, limited life skills and make them into nurses just because anyone can be a nurse (presumably). That is the idea I am protesting.
  4. by   lindarn
    Quote from SharonH, RN
    I don't know how this thread came to be about welfare recipients. The topic was a program to help single parents. All single parents are not on welfare. And not all people on welfare are single parents. Just to clarify.


    Ya know Emmanuel, I am as liberal as the next person. People who have posted on this board for a long time and who remember me from the current events forum will know that about me. But as for being "against supporting able-bodied people who don't have a job", count me in that group.

    But this topic is not about that. Really, it's about the idea that we can take a group of people with limited choices, limited life skills and make them into nurses just because anyone can be a nurse (presumably). That is the idea I am protesting.
    Why don't they take single mothers and put them througth a Physical Therapy program, or Occupational Therapy. They are much more single parent friendly than nursing is, and the pay is MUCH BETTER! They also have the option of opening free standing clinics and in Independant Business owner, and that again, is a much better deal than nursing is. PT Assistant is also a good/better choice.

    But then, nurses are a bigger chunk of the hospital budget, so lets just keep them 'barefoot and pregnant", make nursing the "woman's welfare career", that anyone can do, right? That will take nursing back 40 years. And remove any doubt that a nurse is really not a licensed health care professional. That will continue to keep nurses "in their place".

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    Last edit by lindarn on Dec 9, '07 : Reason: spelling
  5. by   smk1
    Quote from SharonH, RN
    I don't know how this thread came to be about welfare recipients. The topic was a program to help single parents. All single parents are not on welfare. And not all people on welfare are single parents. Just to clarify.


    Ya know Emmanuel, I am as liberal as the next person. People who have posted on this board for a long time and who remember me from the current events forum will know that about me. But as for being "against supporting able-bodied people who don't have a job", count me in that group.

    But this topic is not about that. Really, it's about the idea that we can take a group of people with limited choices, limited life skills and make them into nurses just because anyone can be a nurse (presumably). That is the idea I am protesting.
    Yeah the implication of that is really really condescending. Why do we never see programs like this for dental hygiene, respiratory therapy, PT assistants etc... I do know a single mother in my class who works so hard it is truly inspiring. She is in a program where her tuition/books and childcare is paid for so she works part time to pay for her rent etc... She gets up before 4 in the morning most days to get to work and finish by 7 am to head to class or get to clinical by 6 am. She had to get the same grades as the rest of us to get accepted and is doing just fine in nusring school. She has made sure that she and her daughter will be provided for. So some people in these types of programs really can benefit and the rest of us will benefit too because she will be a great nurse! The key here though, is that the standards were not lowered or changed in anyway. She had to prove with her grades (like everyone else) that she should be accepted to nursing school and that she should stay there.
  6. by   HM2VikingRN
    Drengskapr-Generosity, always admired in Norse society, was even more important for the dreng. One who shared what he had with his fellows - a meal, a knife, a bowstring - furthered the survival of all.
    ...
    The idea of drengskapr uses these very practical survival traits as a springboard to a larger nobility, a highness of mind that elevates all our activities.
    Source: http://altreligion.about.com/gi/dyna...lash/home.html accesed 12/9/07.

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Justice - Let equity and fairness be your hallmark. Treat others in accordance with what they deserve, and give each person a chance to show his or her best.

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Generosity - An open hand and an open heart bring happiness to you and to others. The miserly are never happy.
    Source: http://altreligion.about.com/gi/dyna...lash/home.html accessed today
    I think that this concept speaks to what it means to strengthen the group or society.
    Last edit by HM2VikingRN on Dec 9, '07
  7. by   EmmaG
    Quote from SharonH, RN
    I don't know how this thread came to be about welfare recipients. The topic was a program to help single parents. All single parents are not on welfare. And not all people on welfare are single parents. Just to clarify.
    Point taken. I had only read a couple of pages on this thread, yet already posters were complaining about the welfare state, women 'popping fatherless children out one after another', and so on.


    Ya know Emmanuel, I am as liberal as the next person. People who have posted on this board for a long time and who remember me from the current events forum will know that about me. But as for being "against supporting able-bodied people who don't have a job", count me in that group.
    And my gripe is the hypocrisy of those who rant about single parents on welfare, yet want nothing to do with any assistance to help them out of that situation. The cost of educating and assisting these people while in school pales in comparison to what they will give back in return. But God forbid we offer anyone a chance to better themselves.


    But this topic is not about that. Really, it's about the idea that we can take a group of people with limited choices, limited life skills and make them into nurses just because anyone can be a nurse (presumably). That is the idea I am protesting.
    That is quite presumptuous. Where does it even imply in that article that 'anyone can be a nurse'? As far as 'limited life skills and choices', doesn't it stand to reason that an education will expand those skills and choices?

    And in case some of you have forgotten, nursing schools are regulated as to their curricula, and graduates must pass a standardized test which places us all on a level playing field to start out.

    But let's all assume these people don't really want to better themselves. Let's all assume that they are playing the system and actually want to continue in a cycle of poverty on welfare or working in low-paying, insecure jobs. They made the unforgivable mistake of becoming a single parent. Don't ever let 'em forget it and for God's sake, don't ever lend them a hand to improve their lot in life. After all, what would we have to complain about if they actually managed to make a success of their lives?

    Ah but remember, karma can be a real *****... there but for the Grace of God...

    Well, you get the idea.
  8. by   EmmaG
    "I want to be a nurse because it's always been a dream of mine to make a difference in other people's lives," nursing student Marie Jean-Louis said.

    "This program is offering me an opportunity to become part of a profession that promotes integrity," student Marsha O'hara said.

    Ahmed Sillah is a nursing student from the war-torn west African country of Sierra Leone. "I came to realize that, I mean, there is need for me to help the sick people," Sillah said.

    "I always wanted to go back to school, especially for nursing," student Imani Hillman said.

    "You don't really have to worry about how you're going to pay your rent, so now my primary focus would be to study hard and to finish this program," nursing student Natasha Dwight said.
    Had these students been members of this forum and posted their comments here, they would have received accolades and encouragement by other members, students and seasoned nurses alike. As it is, because they are on the receiving end of assistance to attain their dreams, they are being denigrated and doubted as to their abilities, integrity, intelligence, and desire to better themselves.
  9. by   RNDreamer
    EXACTLY!
    And you can see in this article that these students have an interest in the field. I'm going through the nursing pre- reqs right now and I'm sorry but NO ONE would have been able to force me to go through the stress I'm going through now to maintain my grades if I didn't have an interest in it. If these same women came on this forum, there would have been countless students and nurses who would have shared their stories about how they went through school with X amount of kids, but they made it, graduated, etc, etc.


    Quote from Emmanuel Goldstein
    Had these students been members of this forum and posted their comments here, they would have received accolades and encouragement by other members, students and seasoned nurses alike. As it is, because they are on the receiving end of assistance to attain their dreams, they are being denigrated and doubted as to their abilities, integrity, intelligence, and desire to better themselves.
  10. by   smores
    thanks... this is inspiring... i plan to work in NY... hopefully i will be successful in getting there
  11. by   leslie :-D
    i think in an ideal world, with ideal applicants, this program is a much needed blessing.
    i don't know how many posts i have read on this bb, about the carefully deliberated decisions one made, in becoming a nurse.
    yes, job security and decent $$, are notable considerations.
    but ultimately, there has to be an underlying motivation to want to help others.
    the nsg curriculum is nothing to be taken casually.

    from the govt's perspective, i can see why they would endorse such a program.
    it fulfills any shortages, in minimal time (much less for engineers, ot, pt).

    what i have read from this thread, are the 2 opposing views on the impoverished, single parent.

    on one hand, we need to get them out in the workforce.
    they have families to support, and need jobs that pay above minimum wage.

    the opposing views (those a bit more cynical), wonder if all have the motivation and desire to pursue nursing.
    i don't know, maybe some of these posters would be against supporting any sort of helping hands, to those in need...
    but the skepticism i have read, is something i too, feel.
    i am not ready to blindly offer my support to anyone and everyone that is a single parent, or who receives govt assistance.
    i need to know such a desire is there, on the part of the recipients.
    if they're pursuing this just for the $$, or r/t an impulsive decision, then call me cynical.
    i also bow to ilg's 20+ yrs experience, with observing such trends.

    i will be the first to offer my personal and financial support, to those who truly want it.
    but i am not convinced, that all truly want this.

    lesllie
  12. by   HM2VikingRN
    I think what may have gotten lost in the discussion is that these individuals had to jump through some hoops just to get this chance. I believe that they were motivated from the beginning.
  13. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from HM2Viking
    I think what may have gotten lost in the discussion is that these individuals had to jump through some hoops just to get this chance. I believe that they were motivated from the beginning.
    ah.
    well then, i'm all for it, and wish them the very best.

    leslie

close