Thousands of RNs Planning 2-Day Strike - page 6

Thousands of RNs Planning 2-Day Strike Registered nurses at 13 Sutter Health chains and some other local hospitals have been negotiating for a new contract for several months. Talks have broken... Read More

  1. by   DaFreak71
    Quote from StudentNurseBean
    Sadly it sounds as if you're going into nursing for all the wrong reasons if it is just money. And being married to a "real" RN really doesn't make any difference. You're ONLY HEARING one side instead of really seeing and being involved personally. I'm certain when you get out in the "real" world and you work along bedside and you see some of the "real" problems out there that we "real" nurses face, than you might have a better understanding of this thing we call "striking" and why it happens. Perhaps then, your mindset may change. Maybe not.

    Nurses need a united front, NOT a divided front. If this mindset of undermining the efforts of other nurses who are out there fighting for the "right" things and positive "changes" in the world of nursing continues, change will not take place.

    I'm fortunate enough to work in California full time and have been able to reep the benefits of the bold RN's who have made change before me. I am not one of those nurses who will "stab" my fellow RN's in the back for a little bit of cash for a short period of time. To me, it's a waste of time and it shows something about my own personal character. I want change in the world of nursing and I guess until you start working in the "real" world, you truly won't understand.

    Lastly....


    As I said before, when you come out to California to work as a travel RN and you are getting that nice little paycheck, you have those great nurse to patient ratios and a good working environment, I say to you again....this was all because of nurses who have come BEFORE you to fight for what is right and fair for OUR profession. A united stance moved mountains in this state and these are very good examples that all states and nurses alike should follow. Crossing a picket line ANYWHERE only undermines these efforts of change and continues to leave nursing in a state of needed repair. I mean really, change does not come to you by a spoon, it comes by making a voice and taking a stand. So yes, the next time you are thinking about working at one of these hospitals and you have crossed their picket line, you better believe they will remember your face. That's a promise.
    Here's my final say on this. I don't feel the need to project myself as a person who is 100% altruistic. The fact of the matter is, I am going into nursing for many reasons. These reasons include caring for patients, doing whatever I can do to ease their suffering or to guide them towards wellness, to provide for my family, to have better health care benefits than I've had in the past, to enjoy the many different career paths nursing can take, and to have job security.

    It's clear that you don't care for my stand on this position, but I really wish you'd refrain from stating (in another post) that scabs are mostly incompetent or are looking for an opportunity to divert drugs. That's just foolish.

    You are correct in that I lack "real world" experience in the realm of nursing. However, I have an abundance of experience in life in general. My priorities don't include putting the causes of others in front of my own. If I could save the entire world from every ailment, I would surely do it, but this is impossible. My first priority is to my family, then to patients, and DEAD LAST are my current/future co-workers.

    This idea of solidarity is a very good idea, but that's all it is: an idea. If nursing was suppose to be based on taking care of other nurses, looking out for their best interests, and so on, why do you suppose their are thousands of threads on this very site that illustrate nursing as a cut throat business?

    Once again, you mention that "they" will remember my face. Once again I say...who cares? What people think of me or my motives is none of my business. They are entitled to feel/think what they want to.

    Aside from the personal silliness we've displayed, I'd like to posit a theory. My theory is that hospitals (or any business for that matter) do NOT change unless they are forced to. Their language is money. You are asking for change and it is not (according to them) in their best interest to make the requested changes because it will cost them more money. So the question becomes: How do we get the hospitals to see that it's in their best interest to spend a little more money now to avoid having to pay a lot of money down the road. This is basic short vs long term thinking. The solution is to make them realize that if they don't comply with what the nurses want, they have two choices:

    1. They can entice the nurses to strike which means they will be paying (me) and others who cross picket lines A LOT of money. End result is the hospital loses money until/unless they change their minds.

    2. They can listen to your concerns, institute changes based on long term financial goals (of which include employee retention and no strikes). End result is that the hospital saves money by ensuring safe pt:staff ratio's.

    Let us please focus on the underlying idea of striking (how to effect change) and less on the personal attacks, ok? I haven't said a cross word to you so please quit with the veiled threats and insinuations about my character/motives. It serves no other purpose than to keep icky drama going.

    If they had a icon of an olive branch, I'd insert it here:
  2. by   leslymill
    I don't think you should feel like your on trial for crossing a picket line. I do think the striking nurses are fighting a big Goliath and they are lashing out in frustration at just how bad our profession has gotten. When our prize leaders are concerned about our future to exist as a profession. I know that seems impossible but that is what I am hearing from way too many of them.
  3. by   DaFreak71
    Quote from leslymill
    I don't think you should feel like your on trial for crossing a picket line. I do think the striking nurses are fighting a big Goliath and they are lashing out in frustration at just how bad our profession has gotten. When our prize leaders are concerned about our future to exist as a profession. I know that seems impossible but that is what I am hearing from way too many of them.
    I admire people who stand firmly for what they believe in and their attempts to fix a broken system. It's a hard road to hoe.

    :innerconf
  4. by   teeituptom
    Quote from stevielynn
    Are you coming out to California?


    steph
    I might

    is the surf up

    I know the golf courses are loverly
  5. by   pickledpepperRN
    Nurses Not Allowed To Return After Strike

    OAKLAND, Calif. Oct. 12, 2007 (KGO) - Thousands of Bay Area nurses will try to end their two-day strike against a dozen local hospitals. But, many of them will be turned away as they try to return to work....

    ..."I think that we've sent a strong message to Sutter Health that registered nurses are very serious about their patient care concerns, also very serious about how we feel about them trying to decrease our levels of health care and increase the costs of our healthcare and retirement health care," said Jan Rodolfo, R.N., Summit Hospital...

    http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...cal&id=5703610

    Video at: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...cal&id=5703610
  6. by   CityKat
    Quote from lostdruid
    It's clear that you don't care for my stand on this position, but I really wish you'd refrain from stating (in another post) that scabs are mostly incompetent or are looking for an opportunity to divert drugs. That's just foolish.
    I'm sorry, but you have me confused with another user. I have NEVER once referred to the "scabs" as incompetent or anything of the sort. Re-read my posts please.

    You are correct in that I lack "real world" experience in the realm of nursing. However, I have an abundance of experience in life in general. My priorities don't include putting the causes of others in front of my own. If I could save the entire world from every ailment, I would surely do it, but this is impossible. My first priority is to my family, then to patients, and DEAD LAST are my current/future co-workers.

    This idea of solidarity is a very good idea, but that's all it is: an idea. If nursing was suppose to be based on taking care of other nurses, looking out for their best interests, and so on, why do you suppose their are thousands of threads on this very site that illustrate nursing as a cut throat business?

    Once again, you mention that "they" will remember my face. Once again I say...who cares? What people think of me or my motives is none of my business. They are entitled to feel/think what they want to.

    Aside from the personal silliness we've displayed, I'd like to posit a theory. My theory is that hospitals (or any business for that matter) do NOT change unless they are forced to. Their language is money. You are asking for change and it is not (according to them) in their best interest to make the requested changes because it will cost them more money. So the question becomes: How do we get the hospitals to see that it's in their best interest to spend a little more money now to avoid having to pay a lot of money down the road. This is basic short vs long term thinking. The solution is to make them realize that if they don't comply with what the nurses want, they have two choices:

    1. They can entice the nurses to strike which means they will be paying (me) and others who cross picket lines A LOT of money. End result is the hospital loses money until/unless they change their minds.

    2. They can listen to your concerns, institute changes based on long term financial goals (of which include employee retention and no strikes). End result is that the hospital saves money by ensuring safe pt:staff ratio's.

    Let us please focus on the underlying idea of striking (how to effect change) and less on the personal attacks, ok? I haven't said a cross word to you so please quit with the veiled threats and insinuations about my character/motives. It serves no other purpose than to keep icky drama going.

    If they had a icon of an olive branch, I'd insert it here:
    When you begin working in the world of nursing, you will see first hand that nursing school and nursing in the real world are two totally different things. It is NOT perfect in the real world and there are SERIOUS issues in the world of nursing that affect nurses and patients.
    Solidarity is NOT just an idea. I mean, look at the AMA and the world of medicine. You NEVER hear them complain or do you ever hear them strike? No. Why? Because they've utilized that little idea of "solidarity" so well. Nearly every single med school graduate is a member of the AMA which gives them "power". Solidarity may just be an idea to you and others, but that idea has been shown to work in other careers. With that being said, if all nurses or the MAJORITY of nurses in our profession stood united in solidarity, we wouldn't be facing many of the complex issues we face now. The CNA is a very positive model for this. California is the forefront of change in this nation, which is why it's upsetting to hear people say they would cross the picket lines in a NY minute. Because our profession stands divided in many areas, we are forced to strike to get our point across and make necessary change for the better.

    You may think that crossing a picket line really doesn't do anything, but it is that mentality that will continue to feed the chain of division.

    This could be ongoing and quite honestly, I have said what I want to say to you. The bottom line still remains..nursing needs a UNITED FRONT and NOT a divided front. If nurses continue to stay in this mind set of "I'm gonna do what's best for me and me only", then nursing will always have to struggle with disrespect in the workplace, unmanageable nurse to patient ratios, low pay with more responsibility, mandatory overtime and unsafe working conditions. One person, two people, three people or four is NOT going to make a difference. It is THOUSANDS upon thousands with the same voice that cries out the same thing that will make a difference. Until nursing gets to this point, there will be very little change and it will take a long time.
  7. by   DaFreak71
    Quote from StudentNurseBean
    I'm sorry, but you have me confused with another user. I have NEVER once referred to the "scabs" as incompetent or anything of the sort. Re-read my posts please.
    I stand corrected, it was another poster that used that terminology. I apologize for ascribing those words to you.

    BTW...I see you are a new grad nurse? You keep telling me that I have no real nursing experience. I guess the idea that I might be a tech never crossed your mind? Yes of course nursing school and real world nursing are two different animals.

    For what it is worth to you, I wish you luck in your cause. I've fought the system (education related) before (with mixed results) and I truly do admire those with firm beliefs who are willing to take a stand for them.

    I don't have any animosity towards those who strike. I wish you well.

    Again, insert olive branch here ( )

    P.S. You've brought a very passionate attitude on this issue and I think that people are bound to learn from what you have said. I cannot rule out the possibility that my thinking may change on this issue to, due to what you've said. People are ever changing and if there are flaws in my thinking, I take it upon myself to examine them and set out to correct them. Your words have not served to stir the pot, only to bring a different point of view than one I currently hold.
    Last edit by DaFreak71 on Oct 12, '07
  8. by   CityKat
    Quote from lostdruid
    I stand corrected, it was another poster that used that terminology. I apologize for ascribing those words to you.

    BTW...I see you are a new grad nurse? You keep telling me that I have no real nursing experience. I guess the idea that I might be a tech never crossed your mind? Yes of course nursing school and real world nursing are two different animals.

    For what it is worth to you, I wish you luck in your cause. I've fought the system (education related) before (with mixed results) and I truly do admire those with firm beliefs who are willing to take a stand for them.

    I don't have any animosity towards those who strike. I wish you well.

    Again, insert olive branch here ( )

    P.S. You've brought a very passionate attitude on this issue and I think that people are bound to learn from what you have said. I cannot rule out the possibility that my thinking may change on this issue to, due to what you've said. People are ever changing and if there are flaws in my thinking, I take it upon myself to examine them and set out to correct them. Your words have not served to stir the pot, only to bring a different point of view than one I currently hold.
    Lostdruid..

    I am a new graduate. But I've been working as an RN for months now and I was a PCA for 7 years before working as a nurse.

    I do feel very passionately about this and it's something I will always share with others. I am thankful that you did not take what I was saying as something to make you angry, but understand that it's a point of view that is worth looking into. What you've said is the only outcome I could ask for. So with that, thank you.
  9. by   deehaverrn
    yeah , "lost druid" I was the one who referred to strike busters as scabs but did I call them incompetent? i dont' think so. although I do know that when a good friend was hospitalized after a stroke during a strike at that hospital her care was horrendous! But i hadn't mentioned that..
    Also, I said only that I knew ONE nurse who used crossing picket lines as a Drug source..I never said that this was a reason for everyone. Just that actually there were more reasons than just money and "helping patients".
    It is just that IF nurses wouldn't cross the picket lines to work THAN the hospitals would have to close or divert patents OR actually negotiate. And as a bonus, maybe some of the management team would actually have to assist with actually caring for patients which might make them appreciate us "worker bees" more. I'm not familier with the area involved but at least in my region, the patients would be accomadated with transfer to other hospitals in the event that not enough nurses could be found to cross that line. In fact, in the local strike, the hospital ended up losing big time, because they were paying premium rates, docs were sending and pts were chosing to go to other area hospitals, and they lost a large percentage of their nursing work force for good-especially those didn't have much seniority.
    Anyway, I'm not a fan of anyone who undermines the profession in such a way. And IMO you are assisting the 'enemy' and denigrating the cohesiveness of our profession. I'm definitely NOT saying that you are incompetent or drug-seeking just that you aren't looking at the real issues and consequences.
  10. by   caroladybelle
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    Allnurses.com is not about censorship. In order to understand complicated issues, all points of view need to be considered and heard. It's when people resort to attacking others to make their point, that allnurses.com administration and staff are forced to draw the line. Just because a point of view or belief is possibly "offensive" is not enough reason to "red-line" it from the site, alone.
    .
    First please not that I support strikes, though not unions. And please note that I refuse to do strike breaking or cross picket lines for valid issues.

    But I get really tired of union nurses preaching "nurses's unity" and trash talking other nurses that do not share the exact views that they do. Or putting down the skills of replacement workers with the old "I know a strike nurse that does drugs".

    I thought that we left those games behind in childhood and grade school.

    We ALL know an X nurse that does this illegal/unethical thing.... working as staff, or per diem , or agency, or as a strike nurse. If you have an issue and proof, then as a responsible nurse, report them, otherwise keep your gossip to yourself. Making snide comments about another group's skills and motives (often behaviors endemic in your own group, but then ignored by you) just makes us see you and so called "organized" labor as one more work clique playing the same games that we deride as "eating our fellow nurses".

    The note that someone wanted seriouslyto censor any antistrike posts from this BB, shows how serious the "us vs. them" division is, and how many need to get a grip -

    US is THEM!

    Allnurses.com is not the most "fair" BB and has censored things in the past that I did not agree with. But some of the "censors" on this thread are scary....they insist that the union have freedom of everything and wish to shut down all dissent, ignoring the hypocrisy.

    If union nurses are truly better than strike nurses, the public will voice their opinion and it will work in the unions favor. If the facility truly cannot function with the "valuable contributions" of the union nurses, the management will be quickly willing to negotiate. If the facility were truly serious about pt care, safety, they would shut down and divert. And if strike nurses were really only caring about money or pt care....those wages and required hours - really not worth.

    So there is plenty of guilt, hypocrisy, and greed to go around, as well as a lot of people meaning well.

    Do not demonize and name call other groups of nurses that do not believe what you do.....lest it come back to rest on your own doorstep.
  11. by   deehaverrn
    WAIT ..didn't that I just say that I wasnt trying to say that strike nurses were incompetent or drug seeking? HOw is that "demonizing" or "name-calling".
    The FACT that that particular nurse was drug seeking was emphasized when she was caught and convicted! Because somewhere she worked she made a mistake and was discovered.. I was just making the point that not all strike workers did so for altruistic reasons. As far as your implying that I would ignore such behavior in my own group, I beg to differ since I would definitely report anything that I felt was detrimental to patient care! So who is :making snide comments about another group. Also I'm not sure what group that would be..since you ASSUME that I'm Union when I am not. I don't want to name call or allow you to do so..but we all know what happens when you ASSuME. I simply was voicing my support for what these nurses are doing for the profession. While I agree that there are some abuses with Unions in this country, on the whole, the working class would be greatly worse off if Unions had not won many rights over the years. Working hours, overtime, breaks and salaries included are all benefits that Unions won for the people. Nursing as a profession would be much better off if we were ALL union. Witness the teachers of this country. They are virtually all Union (at least in my part of the country). They have much better benefits across the board. And they also have great PR..you hear all the time about how they are underpaid and overworked...how often do you hear that about nurses? Oh, and please believe me, I'm not trying to say that teachers should not be well paid,, quite the opposite. My point is that TEACHERS STICK TOGETHER...you don't see other teachers coming in and taking their places. This is the way that they have won concessions, increased benefits, and maintained the integrity of their profession.
  12. by   caroladybelle
    I was not necessarily talking about you, just the opinions per many posters on the topic. I also did not "ASSume" you personally were for unions. But while we are here...
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Per your post:

    "yeah , "lost druid" I was the one who referred to strike busters as scabs "

    (so I suppose that is not name-calling)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Per your post:

    Witness the teachers of this country. They are virtually all Union (at least in my part of the country). They have much better benefits across the board. And they also have great PR..you hear all the time about how they are underpaid and overworked...how often do you hear that about nurses? Oh, and please believe me, I'm not trying to say that teachers should not be well paid,, quite the opposite. My point is that TEACHERS STICK TOGETHER...you don't see other teachers coming in and taking their places. This is the way that they have won concessions, increased benefits, and maintained the integrity of their profession.


    (Have they maintained the integrity of the teaching profession? Not given the quality of public school education. Of course there are private schools, many of which are interestingly, not union. )

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Per your post:

    Anyway, I'm not a fan of anyone who undermines the profession in such a way. And IMO you are assisting the 'enemy' and denigrating the cohesiveness of our profession. I'm definitely NOT saying that you are incompetent or drug-seeking just that you aren't looking at the real issues and consequences.

    (you - per your quote- ASSume that we aren't looking at the real issues and consequences - trust me many of us have....After working in several union facilties and several non-union facilities, I personally would rather work in the trenches of the non-union facility. I have seen the "real issues and consequences", and found the union was not beneficial to me, more so than working without it, and actual harmful to nursing's image. Not to mention that the "assisting the enemy" comment is quite dismissive.)
    Last edit by caroladybelle on Oct 14, '07
  13. by   teeituptom
    Remember that Scabs help to heal wounds

    When I cross a strike line and you call me a scab

    I remember that by nature a scab is there to heal.





















    and make big bucks
    Last edit by Thunderwolf on Oct 17, '07 : Reason: nothing wrong in this statement...tis a truth

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